Thot

My Last Cache

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Thot    57

This disapproval marks the last geocache I will ever place.  I'm worn out struggling with these capricious as...oles. 

Some of you will remember the cache name Arrow-Space.  I was FTF and thought it was a clever cache.  Others must have too, it had 30 favorite points. It was archived a couple of weeks ago.  I've had it on my watch list for years.  I'd written the owner twice asking to adopt it but he didn't reply.  He'd quit caching so I knew it would get archived sooner or later.  I'd prepared a cache and a cache page for immediate submission.  So when it was archived last week, within a couple of hours I had placed the cache and submitted it for approval. 

Prime Reviewer immediately disapproved and archived it. 

Since then I have been in a continuous exchange trying to satisfy him so he would approve it.  When, after making many different objections,  he finally said a solid no, I appealed.  I can't link to our exchange because the cache was never approved so this is all I can do to explain.

The following is a summary of our exchange that I posted as my last note to reviewer:

=============================================

This thing has gotten crazy.  The previous cache that I'm replacing had been here 6 years.  You approved it then and the sign you're objecting to now, was there then.  The sign is against the curb.  The homeowner's association has the area past the curb mowed regularly out to 10-15 feet.  This is so residents who park their cars at the curb can let passengers get step out of their cars (which they cannot do with stepping onto the property beyond the sign), and walk on the lawn area without fearing snakes, etc.  Also residents play pitch etc. on this mowed lawn area.  The home owner's association planted the trees on this area and has them trimmed annually.  Residents plant plants and flowers in this lawn area.  The original cache was in one of these trees planted and maintained by the home owner's association. 

Originally my cache was not in or on a tree - it was magnetically attached to the sign and could be done without stepping on the general use property behind the sign.  I agreed to add this statement to my cache description, "You do not need to enter the area behind the 'Private Property' sign to do this cache."   Then, when you wouldn't let up,  I moved the location across the street from this general use lawn area.  But, that wasn't good enough, you wanted to know exactly where the cache is.  So I told you. 

Then you came up with this new and entirely different objection -- that people might have to wander around looking for it.  Gee, it's like you've never been caching, but I agreed to add specifically that it was on the fireplug, so there could be no wandering. 

By the way, it's not true that people doesn't use a GPSr to hunt it, you get the coordinates from Google Earth.  That's how I did the earlier cache as FTF and everyone I know did it this way.  And, I intend to add a coordinates checker so they can confirm they have them right -- which the previous cache did not have.  As for it not requiring a GPSr to find it.  I never heard of such a rule of geocaching.  I know two longtime cachers who don't own a GPSr and cache exclusively with maps, like you're complaining people could hunt this one.  Yes, they can, what's wrong with that?.  Now you object my new coordinates are too far from my old ones. 30 feet of the change is because it was moved across the street to satisfy you (and I'll explain it's on the other side of the street when I can once again edit the cache description.  It is now only 29 feet from exactly where the arrow points which is closer than the cache I'm replacing was -- coordinate checkers provide for more error than 29'.

Given your repeated and changing objections, it appears you have something in for this cache or me.  I urge you to stop these seemingly endless meandering objections and approve the cache. 

=============================================

To minimize aggravating him I didn't mention this in the summary. 

He first thought I had put it on a tree on the not very private "Private Property." When I said the cache could done without stepping beyond the curb onto the "private property" he thought I'd put it on a limb that extended into the street so he said, "If a tree is located wholly on one property, the entire tree is "owned" by that property owner, even if the branches go over the property line."  Most everyone who who owns property in Texas knows that's not true.  If a neighbors tree extends across your property line you can have all of that part of the tree cut off.  I paid a tree trimmer over $100 to trim tall trees hanging over my fence.  Tree trimmers know what they can and cannot do.

In an appeal they require you to explain what rule the review says you didn't follow.  In my appeal I further summarized the above summary as follows:

==============================================

It's not entirely clear to me which guideline he is saying I didn't follow since he has changed a couple of times. He originally disapproved it because in his opinion it was on private property, so I moved it.

I think he may now be maintaining a cacher does not have to use a GPSr to find this cache -- that it, they could use a map. My argument is that this is true of many if not most caches. He may be saying the cache location is too far from the puzzle solution, but the location is within 29' of the solution. He may be saying the cacher has to wander around too widely from the puzzle solution. The nature of the location means the solver cannot be very far off and I intend to add a solution checker. Even if the puzzle solver were to go to the location without checking their solution, I conceded I would say specifically where to look (on a fireplug) when the solver arrives at the location and since it's the only fireplug anywhere around, there should be no wandering. This requirement is confusing because Geocaching normally involves wandering.

I would have already made these changes but I'm locked out of editing my cache page.

===============================================

They denied the appeal, saying:

==============================================

Thank you for using the geocaching appeals process for your cache.

The appeals team has viewed your listing and the correspondence between you and the reviewer. We agree with your reviewer's assessment of this geocache listing and the advice given. There were multiple issues cited by the reviewer during the review process- from private property concerns to the lack of GPS usage. All would have to be resolved before moving forward.

Thus, your cache cannot be published as-is. We recommend that you follow the guidance of your reviewer and/or refer to the Cache Listing Requirements and Guidelines and make the necessary changes. Since the listing has been archived, you would need to start over with a new listing if you wish to pursue your placement.

We will inform your local reviewer of the outcome of this appeal.

Regards,

Chris
Geocaching HQ

===============================================

I don't think it's possible to overcome the objection that after you solve a puzzle it must not be possible to use a map to go to the actual cache location.  This objection applies not only to all puzzle caches but to almost all caches, period.  Knowing my request that all caches that can possibly be found using maps must be archived will not be honored by GC com, I quit

Edited by Thot

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Thot    57
32 minutes ago, Thot said:

 

I can't seem to create a reply to my message without it quoting it.

 

Some of you probably remember my rant about Prime Reviewer archiving my cache at Rocket Park and at the trainer display in front of Space Center Houston saying it was forbidden to have caches in these locations.  This forced me to make them into multis.  Then he turned around and approved other people's caches in the same two places -- one of which is in the exact same spot.  The capriciousness of this system is too much for me.

Edited by Thot

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SockPuppet    192

I feel and understand exactly what you are experiencing. I remember all the trouble he has with the FTF trophy. At first he wanted me to add a disclaiming which I did and he approved the cache. Many months later I try to place the cache and he asks me to remove the disclaimer at which point I mention that those are the EXACT words you suggested that I add to approve the cache. I for one think he makes up his own set of rules and applies them whenever he chooses. Thus I haven't placed a cache in years.

 

And you are quite correct about using aerial maps to find caches and often I check those and only use the GPSr as a backup.

Edited by SockPuppet

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KeyResults    604

Sure bummed about your most recent experience with PR thot. I guess many of us have come up feeling similarly after trying reason in a game where the goal posts constantly move, and the rules change with the weather.

i do hope you aren't serious about hiding no more geocaches. I like many of your geocaches (I believe I don't like one or two of your puzzles - but only because I haven't solved them ;).

Please don't penalize us!

Only once in about a dozen disputes have I failed to "find a way" to get my hide through the system...we just need to get creative...( get with devious people ) or enlist assist of another reviewer for advice.

1 hour ago, cachestacker said:

PR is a D**k.  Plain and simple.

D**kling 

  • Like 1

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jdpen74    18

We first started back in June 2015 and didn't know anyone or recognize names of other cachers. Soon after, I joined this site and one of the first questions asked by me was how to find the Houston area's oldest caches. Tuba_dude helped me to find those w/ the handy dandy PQ tool. Anyhow...some of those caches are yours! Dated from 2001-2004. We found them and they were in great shape. This says "good cache owner" to me. We've found others too, all in great shape. 

I looked through some of your caches we've yet to get to and can see that you are very good w/communication on your cache log. This also says "good cache owner" to me.

I agree with Key Results. Don't give up placing caches for us to find and for YOU to enjoy hearing about us finding them.

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cachestacker    735

Thot:  Do not let one prick change your mind about geocaching - especially placing caches.  You have a bunch of great caches.  Just put that one aside.  It's just not meant to be.  And do something different and better.

  • Like 3

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Thot    57
1 hour ago, cachestacker said:

 Do not let one prick change your mind about geocaching - especially placing caches.

The problem is, this prick is the only reviewer in the area and he's messed me around too many times. 

Edited by Thot

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Thot    57
10 hours ago, KeyResults said:

. . . enlist assist of another reviewer for advice.

I don't know how to do that.  I've only dealt with two reviewers, 9key and this &*$%*&.  9key was the reviewer when I started.  In my dealings with him he was a prince in comparison.  He always seemed reasonable.  Of course, I was a newbie and maybe I just thought what he said was how it really was. 

I soon learned Jeremy was a prick and began to see the capricious way things work. I think a lot of this irresponsible behavior stems from him.  Another problem with the system is, as far as I know, the reviewers don't get paid.  If so, he has to humor these people no matter how they behave (unless they annoy him personally or threaten his fiefdom) because his entire kingdom/wealth rests on free labor.

Edited by Thot

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HoustonControl    1,044

I got hit with the "you don't need a GPSr to find it" rule (guideline?  capricious epiphany?) when I placed my night cache in 2007.  I had the posted coordinates at Holloway Park and said to park there, wait for dark and then head down the walking trail looking for firetacks.  PR wouldn't approve it.  I moved the starting coords a few hundred feet down the trail and said to navigate to the posted coordinates and start looking for firetacks.  Published!

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SockPuppet    192
12 hours ago, Baytown Bert said:

I am probably out of line here, but I say let a sleeping dog lie. 

In hindsight probably so very good advice. It's just geocaching.

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Baytown Bert    1,117

Prime holds all the cards and even has his hands around the throat of Groundspeak.  he makes a better friend than enemy.  YMMV

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