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We Rock! Challenge Score Information

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Posted · Report post

Okay guys, here is the deal:  I don't have the scorecards from the Challenge yet.  I did receive the spreadsheet of scores.  There were huge discrepancies in score ranges for each of our thirteen groups.  I am going to list the groups here, with average scores and the point spread between the lowest and highest score in the group.  You will see what you mean.

 

However, I did some math.  I looked at each group, and added what the score would have been if each person's score was equal to the highest scorer in each.  This is assuming the errors went down, and not up, so keep this in mind.  However, with that math, our team score would have been 270!  We would have beat North Tx's butt!  And I say, we did...because we played fair, and we have the most awesome players ever in our area.  (Then again, their scores were probably off, too...but then again, the cheating...I bet their scores were artificially inflated, and the missing caches kept our people from scoring higher).  If you took the average score from each group and multiplied by members, then divided by the amount they counted for our region (52), you would get 253.  

 

Here is score averages for groups with the point spread between scores, so you can see how far ranging they were.  We will have to compare this to scorecards to see what explains the differences:

 

ManofSteel/Adventure777/Karen and Mike: 361.6, spread of 26

Huff-Sufer/TeamRedJ/TxTravelers:  322, spread of 44

Dangerkitties/Kalvey/Aggie85 and Vicki:  301, spread of 82

Dangerman/3Olives/Robin 1:  270, spread of 8

MrMuddyBuddies/Houston Control/Baytown Bert/GGMorton/Rich:  266, spread of 136

marinebuck/windknot: 248, spread of 10

2katz/KeyResults/TexasWriter/Corndoll:  243, spread of 93

Catwoman/Stirfrie2005/both Colters and Mindy: 237.4, spread of 37

HeftyDude, Taz and GSIs:  195, spread of 27

TealCat/Norman/SueandRon: 180.75, spread of 34

GSGuru/Txyankee and rosey:  180, spread of 5

"Team RIverRats" (JHawk and crew): 157.5, spread of 29

Bentandem/Squirrel Trappers/UP Train:  114.75, spread of 5

 

If you don't see your group on there, that is because they were in the group that got dropped.  They counted 52 of our 64 players (top 80%).  

 

Basically, from looking at these results, I can see that it worked best to let people figure out their own groups and their own roles.  Matching some slower folks up with some faster ones worked in a few groups there.  Recruiting people who didn't originally sign up, but did after some encouragement from myself and others was a good boon to our group.  We had some pretty low scores among both new people and people who have played before that got dropped.  

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Posted · Report post

Wow, thanks for putting this together Keely.   I would love to see the spreadsheet for mine.  I took pictures of every page of my score card before submitting, so maybe we can sleuth out why there is an 82 point spread from my team! 

 

This definitely underscores the need for a new scoring system if teams who cached together have such wildly varying scores. 

Thanks again!

DangerKitties likes this

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Posted · Report post

MrMuddyBuddies/Houston Control/Baytown Bert/GGMorton/Rich:  266, spread of 136

 

How is it possible to have this much of a spread if we all punched every cache, or am I misinter-pretating sumpin?

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Posted · Report post

Wonder if the spread issues are fairly even throughout the regions.

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Posted · Report post

I wonder for future scoring if it would be a good idea if once the host region scores all of the score cards that all of the region team captains go behind them and double check all of the score cards. So maybe that can help with deter cheating and also have a representative from each region making sure the scoring is fair...??

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Posted · Report post

That is such BS!  I know for a fact that our team of Stan, Rich, BB, GGM and I scored 326 points on caches.  Sure, maybe one or two scorecards got punched on the wrong square or something, but 266 points!  With a spread of 136!  That's just piss-poor, sloppy scoring by the host team!  Did anyone on our team get credit for all 326 points?

JuleeD likes this

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Posted · Report post

I know, Larry...I know.  This is why Jason wanted me to leave the scores alone until we could look at the cards (but of course I didn't listen).  This is an example of what I mean by the spread in scores and inaccurate scoring.  Here is what the spreadsheet has recorded for your group's scores:

Stan 289

Gil    282

Bert  271

Rich  312

Larry 176

 

It is ridiculous.  The cheating was one thing this year, the scoring was a whole other thing.....

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Posted · Report post

Further great examples of why I'd rather just attend the Texas Challenge as an event and avoid the competitive part altogether. Waaaaaay too much drama....

GASTX and green-eyed like this

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Posted · Report post

I know, Larry...I know.  This is why Jason wanted me to leave the scores alone until we could look at the cards (but of course I didn't listen).  This is an example of what I mean by the spread in scores and inaccurate scoring.  Here is what the spreadsheet has recorded for your group's scores:

Stan 289

Gil    282

Bert  271

Rich  312

Larry 176

 

It is ridiculous.  The cheating was one thing this year, the scoring was a whole other thing.....

 

Wow! That is incredible!  

This may be the end of the Texas Challenge competition, if scores can't be trusted any better than that.

TexasWriter likes this

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Posted · Report post

That is such BS!  I know for a fact that our team of Stan, Rich, BB, GGM and I scored 326 points on caches.  Sure, maybe one or two scorecards got punched on the wrong square or something, but 266 points!  With a spread of 136!  That's just piss-poor, sloppy scoring by the host team!  Did anyone on our team get credit for all 326 points?

Maybe some caches that the group found got disqualified.  That's still a huge discrepancy.  There shouldn't be this big of spread in a team, especially as long as it took the scorers to go over the scorecards. 

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Posted · Report post

I feel much like everyone else, glad to see the scores, but clearly don't understand how the spreads came to play. I know there were 5pt FTF chickens so some teams spreads could be in part to that. but if each team went to the cache and punched the cache.. scores should me much closer for teams.. I am glad you shared with us tonight.....I am very curious to see the cards and then to compare folks in each team to see what was missed....we kept a tally and our team with the value points that were to have been given and the amount we found, should have had 343 each....so 322 isn't too far off for us....

I am still very proud of how SETX played...

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Posted · Report post

Further great examples of why I'd rather just attend the Texas Challenge as an event and avoid the competitive part altogether. Waaaaaay too much drama....

 

Even though this was my first TX-challenge and I didn't compete in the hunt I'm with TW on this one.

I'd rather enjoy myself doing some awesome caching with fun people in a new area then being stabbed in the back by cheating teams & bad scoring on the hosting team.... or maybe I'm just a sore loser  :knuppel2:

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Posted · Report post

I know they are working on ideas for how to make the scoring more accurate.  TravelingGeek has been working on it, with a few others from different regions.  It would involve going to a different system for "punching" and reading the scorecard.

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Posted · Report post

I would be willing to help with that too if needed.  People shouldn't have to think twice about if their score counted accurately or if there was any wrong-doing involved.  A state like Texas deserves better in my opinion.

 

Hopefully this affected all regions equally and didn't change the outcome.  Either way, I had a fun time despite the problems and will not let it put me off of participating in the future.  

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Posted · Report post

If only that fixed the issues with the lack of standarized rules, juvenile behavior by some elements of the competition (e.g. moving caches after finding them, taking them entirely, etc.), wildly varying systems of awarding of points, cheating, etc.

GASTX likes this

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Sounds like they need some caching referees issuing red cards and DQ som teams. I would volunteer to do that if they would let me carry a paintball gun to mark all the DQ players :D.

Edited by SockPuppet
TexasWriter and Mustard Devil like this

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Posted · Report post

Maybe I've been watching too much "I Almost Got Away With It" on Netflix, but what if we could rig a system that if a Texas Challege cache was "moved/pulled" it would put off a red dye such as what happens to theives who steal from banks ;)

Texas Challenge SE Edition...

Bring it

*insert Mustard Devil's smiley here*

Jhawk! likes this

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Posted · Report post

I agree those are some large spreads for some teams. Will be interested to see what the score cards reveal when/if we get them back.

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Posted · Report post

After being involved with the scoring in 2011, I can tell you it is not an easy task -- and is very time consuming.  We had 5 people tabulating scores, and it still took several hours.  We also had reps from each hunting team sitting in the scoring room observing.  They didn't exactly double-check all scorecards (or any scorecards), but were basically there to make sure things were on the up-and-up.  We used an Excel spreadsheet to do the scoring and, my gut feel is, we had very few errors.  After scoring a few cards, you began to see a pattern emerge depending on which area a participant was hunting in, which made it easier to double-check any outliers.

DangerKitties likes this

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Posted · Report post

Well, speaking for my team... it took us a few stamps to figure out exactly how it had to go for it to be stamped in the right place. We were on the line on a few... we didn't know if they would count those or not. I was hoping so since we surely can't be the only team that misses the mark here and there and each stamp is individual so that should indicate which cache spot was meant to be punched but... who knows? Plus there was one stamp... it was some kind of a hand, and it was along the creek path near town... that was jacked up and we couldn't get the whole thing to punch right. Our thought was the scoring folks would see that a lot of people were having issues with that cache stamp and count it. But again... who knows?

 

I don't imagine it's easy to count the scores and surely there has got to be an easier way.

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Posted · Report post

We tried to give the benefit of the doubt while scoring.  I can't imagine any universe where my scorecard should be worth half of what I really scored for the challenge.

JuleeD and TexasWriter like this

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Posted · Report post

Keep in mind these scores are after the the disqualification of caches that were confirmed missing or otherwise.

Either way folks in squads should have had near identical scores. The spread with the squads is baffling.

 

I will say that scoring for the next challenge is already being discussed and that this years fiasco "should" not reflect on next years challenge. With that said West Texas really set the bar high for a well organized and smoothly run challenge the first and last time they hosted.

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Posted · Report post

I was a hunter in 2011 and can say that when I saw how different Tealcat and my scores were (they should have been the same), I was surprised.  But given that some punches don't work very well, especially when they cut out paper as opposed to the orienteering type of punch, I can understand some variability.

 

I suspect that there is some of that in the most recent round of scoring as well.  I know (based on what we were doing during the hunt) that I should have had a higher score (by about 15 points) than Tealcat, but that isn't the case.  Again, I know that a couple of the punches didn't punch very well and that may have led to some disqualified finds.

 

Having said all of that (and all of the various comments that people have made about cheating and so on), we had a great time and will probably do it again.  If the focus of our region turns to fielding a time that will WIN at any cost, we will become casual cachers and try to still have a great time.  As long as we are welcome to hunt, we will probably continue to hunt and will continue to have a great time doing so.

 

It would be nice if the scoring seemed to correspond to what we actually did...

Jhawk! likes this

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Yep, fun and fellowship is my goal in caching when I'm fortunate enough to be able to do it with others. There's just too many options out there of ways to do that where there aren't so many potential detractors from having that fun. The "competition" part of the Challenge is just not the way I'd like to spend my valuable free time when I have other options. I know I've said plenty about my take on it all, so I'll shut up about it now. To each his own...

Baytown Bert likes this

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