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Hiding a cache without finding one first

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Posted · Report post

I was FTF on this one today and it was actually not that far off. Just difficult since it was in a wooded area and lots of hiding places. I think the difficulty should be kicked up a tad unless the coords are adjusted to be right on the money. I took a new waypoint reading with a 10 minute average and it was still showing an accuracy of 16 feet.

A micro in the woods says it all.

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Posted · Report post

Thanks everyone for all the various viewpoints.  O0

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Posted · Report post

Setting a find count before hiding a cache is not a bad idea. At the very least a statement should be included in the guidelines.

...and as PR once said... They are guidelines not rules (..and open to his interpretation only)

ok.. that last bit was my words.

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Posted · Report post

Maxwell's Hammer had between 2 and 5 cache finds when they started hiding and by the time they had 25 finds, they also had a dozen great hides. To some people the hiding just comes naturally, and I'm glad there were no rules to ruin their fun in the early days.

OTOH, when I hid my first series (of unfortunate caches), sombody really should have stopped me!  :police:

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Posted · Report post

I, personally, believe it would be easier to find a few caches first before placing them so you at least get the feel for it. Easier for the cacher and the owner that is. It's not really a matter of rules as it's a matter of location, location, location. I mean, if you're going to place a geocache somewhere, make sure it's somewhere that counts.

Just my two-cents.

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Posted · Report post

Whatever name / account you use...please just place high-quality caches.  O0

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Posted · Report post

I found Cane Pole Surprise.  It was only 142' off.  I knew the coords were likely bad when I left.  CO has 1 find.  But he's obviously excited about hiding.  He did post new coords when I sent mine so there's some hope.

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Posted · Report post

I wonder if he is using a smart phone to hide the caches?

I hope no one uses a smart phone to hide Geocaches. This is just not accurate for hiding one.

Roger

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Posted · Report post

I wonder if he is using a smart phone to hide the caches?

I hope no one uses a smart phone to hide Geocaches. This is just not accurate for hiding one.

Roger

To be fair, we've often thought that was the case and in some cases it's true ...if they're not used properly.

Not that we're planning on using anything but a GPSr to hide caches....

There's a few iPad cachers on the Northwest side who's coords are pretty spot on.  Also, can't remember who now, but someone who has hidden stuff with their iPhone had pretty accurate coords...

It's like anything else....if you pay attention to the process the coords should turn out ok...

However, some are so quick to hide without verifying the coords, ie doing due diligence, that their coords are way off....

....and....it happens with folks using "traditional" GPSr units, too, it's just not as prevalent.....so it's not necessarily fair to categorically lump all smart device users as being ones who can't accurately portray coordinates....

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Posted · Report post

The issue at hand, from the OP, is hiding a cache without finding one first.

It can, and sometimes is (not always) a frustrating thing.  There are, unfortunately, a lot of frustrating things in this game/sport/activity.

This topic comes up a lot on the main boards.  The fact is, Jeremy isn't going to add this as a requirement.  There are some excellent arguments both for and against it.  If there's one consistency here, is that Jeremy isn't relenting in his position so other solutions should be worked at locally.

HC's coaching method sometimes works...and is an excellent approach we've used before, too.  It doesn't always work.

The variable here is whether the individual(s) hiding the cache have taken the "ready, fire, aim" approach or if they're individuals who Pay Attention to things like rules, guidelines, advice from forums, etc.  We've thought about a lot of the "instant gratification" that the smartphone apps have brought, to the detriment of the activity, but there's not one thing to be done about it, really.

Generally, while, frustrating, those individuals that hide without finding a set amount weed themselves out.  The system of getting rid of fire-and-forget caches is maddeningly slow and ponderous at times but it is, as they say, what it is.

With our situation (impending job relocation) keeping us super busy on the details of leaving Houston has been all-consuming and time intensive it's done something interesting.  Call it unintended consequences or whatever but it's lifted a lot of stress about geocaching off of us....while we don't get out to cache nearly as much as we want, it's provided as a fresh look at things, this issue being one of them....hopefully the same sense of frustration others feel by this can be mitigated over time, too.  O0

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Posted · Report post

I wonder if he is using a smart phone to hide the caches?

I hope no one uses a smart phone to hide Geocaches. This is just not accurate for hiding one.

Roger

Too many folks need to catch up on this. Times have changed and so has the tech.

Several "smart phones" has much more accurate radios and compass components that equal or better some high-end GPSr units. The difference between an iPhone4 using geosphere software with averaging - easily equal to or better than most dedicated GPSr units  - and say an iPhone3 with any app is night and day. It's like comparing a trimble to an $99 etrex.

You guys who are blindly beating on ALL connected smart phones are missing out on a very powerful tool, that is as good or better than your Garmin in every way except battery life and sometimes canopy penetration. That's a fact. The latest Droids and iPhone hardware is incredible. The software is finally leveraging the incredible hardware.

Please do your homework and please be specific when you knock "smart phones" You obviously have not been exposed to these fantastic little gadgets setup and used properly. At this point, it's not about the device, it's about the application being used, and the person holding the unit.

I have proven this three times hunting against an Oregon 450, Garmin 60CSx and a Garmin 62s. Each unit was in the hands of an experienced cacher who thought smart phones are junk. I smoked them all to the caches and made believers out of each. I'll take an iPhone 4 armed with geoSphere app against any consumer GPSr if I could have only one device. I use the GPSMAP 62s everytime I go out because it has better battery life and because it does hold sats better under canopy where I like to cache most. However, if you forced me to pick only one device for a contest, I promise you I'd take the phone.

I believe we have a lot of closet iPad, iPhone, Droid users out there who have yet to admit this for some reason, but it's time to let the cat out of the bag. The right smart phone with the right app is a killer geocaching tool. If I am Garmin, I'd be quaking in my boots right now...seriously.

I think it would be a really fun "shootout" event to pit two teams of our local "elite" cachers, one team using only smart phones and the other using only consumer GPSr units. My money is definitely on the phone team.

To sweeten the deal, the second part would be for each team to place 5 hides in varying terrain using their respective devices. Then, have a commercial surveying quality unit assess each teams hide coordinates to see just how accurate the placements were. I believe everyone will be surprised by the results.

Just a thought.

K

K

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Posted · Report post

I wonder if he is using a smart phone to hide the caches?

I hope no one uses a smart phone to hide Geocaches. This is just not accurate for hiding one.

Roger

Too many folks need to catch up on this. Times have changed and so has the tech.

Several "smart phones" has much more accurate radios and compass components that equal or better some high-end GPSr units. The difference between an iPhone4 using geosphere software with averaging - easily equal to or better than most dedicated GPSr units  - and say an iPhone3 with any app is night and day. It's like comparing a trimble to an $99 etrex.

You guys who are blindly beating on ALL connected smart phones are missing out on a very powerful tool, that is as good or better than your Garmin in every way except battery life and sometimes canopy penetration. That's a fact. The latest Droids and iPhone hardware is incredible. The software is finally leveraging the incredible hardware.

Please do your homework and please be specific when you knock "smart phones" You obviously have not been exposed to these fantastic little gadgets setup and used properly. At this point, it's not about the device, it's about the application being used, and the person holding the unit.

I have proven this three times hunting against an Oregon 450, Garmin 60CSx and a Garmin 62s. Each unit was in the hands of an experienced cacher who thought smart phones are junk. I smoked them all to the caches and made believers out of each. I'll take an iPhone 4 armed with geoSphere app against any consumer GPSr if I could have only one device. I use the GPSMAP 62s everytime I go out because it has better battery life and because it does hold sats better under canopy where I like to cache most. However, if you forced me to pick only one device for a contest, I promise you I'd take the phone.

I believe we have a lot of closet iPad, iPhone, Droid users out there who have yet to admit this for some reason, but it's time to let the cat out of the bag. The right smart phone with the right app is a killer geocaching tool. If I am Garmin, I'd be quaking in my boots right now...seriously.

I think it would be a really fun "shootout" event to pit two teams of our local "elite" cachers, one team using only smart phones and the other using only consumer GPSr units. My money is definitely on the phone team.

To sweeten the deal, the second part would be for each team to place 5 hides in varying terrain using their respective devices. Then, have a commercial surveying quality unit assess each teams hide coordinates to see just how accurate the placements were. I believe everyone will be surprised by the results.

Just a thought.

K

K

You will find most people on this board love mind a good debate, so don't be afraid to speak your mind. OTOH, don't expect them to change their minds on the subject of hiding with smart phones any time soon either.

You brought up good points about the advancements in smart phones for hunting caches, and many, many experienced cachers on this forum and elsewhere use them in the field. The problem comes when smart phones are used to HIDE caches, and experience has shown the results are uneven at best. This may be the fault of the genre, the particular phone, or the particular hider, but it is an ongoing problem for sure.

And that is the point of this thread. New cachers (or very, very new cachers) hiding a cache when they do not yet have any or much experience hunting and finding caches. Time and again people go out for a FTF on a newbie cacher's hide, only to find it is 50+ feet off and hidden with a smart phone. Again, this may be a problem with their phone and app, or it could (and often is) a result of their not yet knowing how to use the technology they have in their hand. The end result is frustration on all sides.

Please do come to an event, meet some fellow cachers and compare toys. You will be pleasantly surprised!  :)

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Posted · Report post

I wonder if he is using a smart phone to hide the caches?

I hope no one uses a smart phone to hide Geocaches. This is just not accurate for hiding one.

Roger

Too many folks need to catch up on this. Times have changed and so has the tech.

Several "smart phones" has much more accurate radios and compass components that equal or better some high-end GPSr units. The difference between an iPhone4 using geosphere software with averaging - easily equal to or better than most dedicated GPSr units  - and say an iPhone3 with any app is night and day. It's like comparing a trimble to an $99 etrex.

You guys who are blindly beating on ALL connected smart phones are missing out on a very powerful tool, that is as good or better than your Garmin in every way except battery life and sometimes canopy penetration. That's a fact. The latest Droids and iPhone hardware is incredible. The software is finally leveraging the incredible hardware.

Please do your homework and please be specific when you knock "smart phones" You obviously have not been exposed to these fantastic little gadgets setup and used properly. At this point, it's not about the device, it's about the application being used, and the person holding the unit.

I have proven this three times hunting against an Oregon 450, Garmin 60CSx and a Garmin 62s. Each unit was in the hands of an experienced cacher who thought smart phones are junk. I smoked them all to the caches and made believers out of each. I'll take an iPhone 4 armed with geoSphere app against any consumer GPSr if I could have only one device. I use the GPSMAP 62s everytime I go out because it has better battery life and because it does hold sats better under canopy where I like to cache most. However, if you forced me to pick only one device for a contest, I promise you I'd take the phone.

I believe we have a lot of closet iPad, iPhone, Droid users out there who have yet to admit this for some reason, but it's time to let the cat out of the bag. The right smart phone with the right app is a killer geocaching tool. If I am Garmin, I'd be quaking in my boots right now...seriously.

I think it would be a really fun "shootout" event to pit two teams of our local "elite" cachers, one team using only smart phones and the other using only consumer GPSr units. My money is definitely on the phone team.

To sweeten the deal, the second part would be for each team to place 5 hides in varying terrain using their respective devices. Then, have a commercial surveying quality unit assess each teams hide coordinates to see just how accurate the placements were. I believe everyone will be surprised by the results.

Just a thought.

K

K

Let me know when you plan on doing the FCL. I'll tag along with my 62s. I wanna watch while you navigate those tall pines with your Smartphone.  :)

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Posted · Report post

we were all beginning cachers and made mistakes.  it's kinda ridiculous to be against folks trying the sport out and placing caches, no matter their "experience level" or equipment.  as far as challenges for various equipment / cachers is concerned, this is not an interesting topic for me and smacks of defensiveness on both sides.  boring...

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Posted · Report post

If you want to see if your unit is close, just put the coordinates in google earth and look.  this is not hard.

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If you want to see if your unit is close, just put the coordinates in google earth and look.  this is not hard.

This is exactly what I do when I place a cache. I don't have a GPS or smartphone either.

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Posted · Report post

Sometimes these cache setters with no finds are nothing more than a sock puppet for another established cacher.  They just want to throw one out without someone going, "Oh yeah, that's a certain cacher who has these tendencies."

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Sometimes these cache setters with no finds are nothing more than a sock puppet for another established cacher.  They just want to throw one out without someone going, "Oh yeah, that's a certain cacher who has these tendencies."

I agree

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Posted · Report post

Having some basic requirement or proficiency seems reasonable to me. The one thing to be sure og though is the case where the CO is using a different ID than normal. I have run across a couple people who have more than one ID at events, but it didn't occur to me to ask why.

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This was an interesting and helpful discussion.  I had about 140 finds before my first hide (hidden yesterday, not published yet) and I was starting to feel a little bad about not "giving back" by contributing some hides.  But I can't imagine what mistakes I would have made if I had tried to hide one too soon.  No guarantee that I haven't made mistakes with this hide (TBD), but I learned so much from the finds, reading discussions, etc. that I feel pretty good about it.  I hope I get some feedback from the experienced cachers out there so future hides will be even better.  I'm looking forward to doing more hides and I want them to be good ones.  Hopefully this first one will be. 

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This was an interesting and helpful discussion.  I had about 140 finds before my first hide (hidden yesterday, not published yet) and I was starting to feel a little bad about not "giving back" by contributing some hides.  But I can't imagine what mistakes I would have made if I had tried to hide one too soon.  No guarantee that I haven't made mistakes with this hide (TBD), but I learned so much from the finds, reading discussions, etc. that I feel pretty good about it.  I hope I get some feedback from the experienced cachers out there so future hides will be even better.  I'm looking forward to doing more hides and I want them to be good ones.  Hopefully this first one will be.

Welcome to the forums DaggerK1 !!

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This was an interesting and helpful discussion.  I had about 140 finds before my first hide (hidden yesterday, not published yet) and I was starting to feel a little bad about not "giving back" by contributing some hides.  But I can't imagine what mistakes I would have made if I had tried to hide one too soon.  No guarantee that I haven't made mistakes with this hide (TBD), but I learned so much from the finds, reading discussions, etc. that I feel pretty good about it.  I hope I get some feedback from the experienced cachers out there so future hides will be even better.  I'm looking forward to doing more hides and I want them to be good ones.  Hopefully this first one will be.

Welcome to the forums, DaggerK1!  You've taken all the right steps.  And I don't think anyone will fault you if a mistake is made.  It happens.  The larger concern is those that find none or very few before having any experience or doing any background work to make sure what they have done is even remotely in order.  Seems like you certainly have.  Look forward to seeing this one and more out there!

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