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Discussion Topic: Finding Archived Caches


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#1 cachestacker

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:47 AM

The first time I did this was on a Pepper cache when I first started, maybe a few months after my first find. I had an eTrex and downloaded a PQ to it and went to find it.  Manually logging, after finding it, I noticed it was archived about 2 weeks before I found it.  At the time I was surprised to see that gc.com let me log.  She had archived it on one DNF, and it was there and in perfect condition.  So I felt it reasonable to log - found it, signed it.

 

The rules state that a CO can archive and that if the container is in place to please remove it.  There is no requirement to remove the container and nothing that addresses finds on archived caches.  Usually, the vast majority of archived caches are still loggable.  There are some cases, though, where GS has locked the page and allows no further logging for one reason or another.  So they apparently do not have a problem with logging archived caches, generally speaking. 

 

I don't seek these out.  But if it's there and I have the info on it, and the cache is found, I say "why not?"  I view the archive as a removal from the masses.  But not a removal of the cache IF it is there.  If the cache is NOT there, then no log, obviously.

 

This issue became a huge blowup recently on an out of state forum.  Just got me to thinking that on this, like some other topics recently, not everyone may feel the same about.  Thoughts?

 

 


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#2 ohl hockey guy

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:51 AM

If you find it, log it!


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#3 HoustonControl

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:14 AM

I've logged a handful of archived caches I have come across (sometimes it's hard to figure out which one they are) and recently has someone log one of my archived caches that had been lost to logging equipment in Memorial Park.  They found the lost ammo can for me and I was perfectly fine with it.  There used to be a cacher in these parts who would archive caches somewhat willy nilly but leave the container in the field.  She then seemed to take delight in deleting any logs on her archived caches -- which I guess is her perogative, though I don't really understand that.


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#4 TexasWriter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:15 AM

I've only ever logged one archived cache, and that was just a couple weeks ago down in Cachestacker's area. A cache had been placed and the posted coordinates were 60 feet off. The first few finders found an archived cache at the posted coordinates but logged the new cache for their find. I had read some of the logs and the CO's "Update Coordinates" log, so I knew it was still available for an FTF. Being drawn to FTF's like a moth to the flame, I swung down there on a midnight FTF raid around town, and sure enough, the new cache still had a blank log. After I signed the log on the new one, I went to the initial coordinates 60 feet away to see what had happened. Sure enough, there was a cache there that had not been removed when the cache was archived. Since I took the time to find the archived cache, and the CO of the archived cache had not taken the time to remove the container, I logged it. It seemed a fitting action based on all the confusion it caused.


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#5 green-eyed

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:29 AM

I've only ever logged one archived cache, and that was just a couple weeks ago down in Cachestacker's area. A cache had been placed and the posted coordinates were 60 feet off. The first few finders found an archived cache at the posted coordinates but logged the new cache for their find. I had read some of the logs and the CO's "Update Coordinates" log, so I knew it was still available for an FTF. Being drawn to FTF's like a moth to the flame, I swung down there on a midnight FTF raid around town, and sure enough, the new cache still had a blank log. After I signed the log on the new one, I went to the initial coordinates 60 feet away to see what had happened. Sure enough, there was a cache there that had not been removed when the cache was archived. Since I took the time to find the archived cache, and the CO of the archived cache had not taken the time to remove the container, I logged it. It seemed a fitting action based on all the confusion it caused.

 

ooh... you logged the archived one next to my letterbox?  seeing that they didn't remove it, I probably would have done it had I found it too.  actually thought about the previous "finders" of my letterbox doing the same thing since they found the archived one.  i'm still trying to figure out why those coordinates were published instead of the ones I gave for the letterbox location.


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#6 TexasWriter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:31 AM

 

I've only ever logged one archived cache, and that was just a couple weeks ago down in Cachestacker's area. A cache had been placed and the posted coordinates were 60 feet off. The first few finders found an archived cache at the posted coordinates but logged the new cache for their find. I had read some of the logs and the CO's "Update Coordinates" log, so I knew it was still available for an FTF. Being drawn to FTF's like a moth to the flame, I swung down there on a midnight FTF raid around town, and sure enough, the new cache still had a blank log. After I signed the log on the new one, I went to the initial coordinates 60 feet away to see what had happened. Sure enough, there was a cache there that had not been removed when the cache was archived. Since I took the time to find the archived cache, and the CO of the archived cache had not taken the time to remove the container, I logged it. It seemed a fitting action based on all the confusion it caused.

 

ooh... you logged the archived one next to my letterbox?  seeing that they didn't remove it, I probably would have done it had I found it too.  actually thought about the previous "finders" of my letterbox doing the same thing since they found the archived one.  i'm still trying to figure out why those coordinates were published instead of the ones I gave for the letterbox location.

 

 

See, now I was trying to be vague and you went and threw yourself out into traffic. Lol


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#7 cachestacker

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:40 AM

As you had detailed it in prior posts, I thought it was a perfect, relevant example!


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#8 Mudfrog

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:41 AM

Because of my replies in other threads, ya'll may already know what i'm gonna say. Guess i'm kinda strict with myself.  :unsure:

 

A cache needs to be published and currently listed on gc.com before i log it as found. It just doesn't feel right posting a found log on a cache before it's published or after it's archived. Now, if i happened to have found the cache while it was active and somehow forgot to log it, then i wouldn't have any problem going back and logging it after it was archived.



#9 HoustonControl

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:48 AM

Because of my replies in other threads, ya'll may already know what i'm gonna say. Guess i'm kinda strict with myself.  :unsure:

 

A cache needs to be published and currently listed on gc.com before i log it as found. It just doesn't feel right posting a found log on a cache before it's published or after it's archived. Now, if i happened to have found the cache while it was active and somehow forgot to log it, then i wouldn't have any problem going back and logging it after it was archived.

Interesting.  Of course, it's impossible to log a cache online before it is published.  If you found a cache in the field before it is published, would you go ahead and sign the log, then claim the FTF when it did publish?  Just for the record, I would... and I have.  In one instance, I came across the hider quite by accident as he was hiding the cache.  Another time, there was a series coming out a few at a time.  I just went .01 down the road from the last published cache and began looking and found a couple more that way.  All's fair in love and geocaching, I say, but I'm sure others may disagree.

 

Maybe this should be a whole other thread.


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#10 TexasWriter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:51 AM

Because of my replies in other threads, ya'll may already know what i'm gonna say. Guess i'm kinda strict with myself.  :unsure:

 

A cache needs to be published and currently listed on gc.com before i log it as found. It just doesn't feel right posting a found log on a cache before it's published or after it's archived. Now, if i happened to have found the cache while it was active and somehow forgot to log it, then i wouldn't have any problem going back and logging it after it was archived.

 

Generally speaking, that's my tenet, too. In this case, however, the archived cache's CO's lack of effort in being a responsible cache owner led to lots of confusion, so I made an exception on this one. I believe in the cookie cutter approach on most things (standardization and business process optimization is what I do for a living), but I also believe that not everything always fits nicely in the box.


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#11 TexasWriter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:53 AM

 

Because of my replies in other threads, ya'll may already know what i'm gonna say. Guess i'm kinda strict with myself.  :unsure:

 

A cache needs to be published and currently listed on gc.com before i log it as found. It just doesn't feel right posting a found log on a cache before it's published or after it's archived. Now, if i happened to have found the cache while it was active and somehow forgot to log it, then i wouldn't have any problem going back and logging it after it was archived.

Interesting.  Of course, it's impossible to log a cache online before it is published.  If you found a cache in the field before it is published, would you go ahead and sign the log, then claim the FTF when it did publish?  Just for the record, I would... and I have.  In one instance, I came across the hider quite by accident as he was hiding the cache.  Another time, there was a series coming out a few at a time.  I just went .01 down the road from the last published cache and began looking and found a couple more that way.  All's fair in love and geocaching, I say, but I'm sure others may disagree.

 

 

 

BRUTE FORCE, BRUTE FORCE!! Lol...

 

I've seen that done by me a time or two...


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#12 log dawgs

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:59 AM

I have found several caches that have been archived.  I was the person who found HC's Memorial Park Mob Cache.  I found an old FTFC cache that was gabbytabby's.  I think I found 5-6 archived caches while out and about.  If you find it no matter if it is archived in my opinion it is a find.  To me the cache is there.  The issue may be why was it archived.  Owner no longer caching? CO couldn't find it after they logged the area.  Other people couldn't find it and asked PR to archive even though it was there.  CO disabled it and PR archived it.  To me it was published it is there and it can be logged. 

 

I have actually logged two of those caches and since was able to adopt one that was hid in 9/2001 and re-enable another since PR was having a bad day and wouldn't re-enable it for the old CO.


Edited by log dawgs, 22 November 2013 - 11:00 AM.

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#13 KeyResults

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:16 AM

If you find it, log it!

Agree. If Owner doesn't agree for some reason they can nuke the find.


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#14 Mudfrog

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:14 PM

 

Because of my replies in other threads, ya'll may already know what i'm gonna say. Guess i'm kinda strict with myself.  :unsure:

 

A cache needs to be published and currently listed on gc.com before i log it as found. It just doesn't feel right posting a found log on a cache before it's published or after it's archived. Now, if i happened to have found the cache while it was active and somehow forgot to log it, then i wouldn't have any problem going back and logging it after it was archived.

Interesting.  Of course, it's impossible to log a cache online before it is published.  If you found a cache in the field before it is published, would you go ahead and sign the log, then claim the FTF when it did publish?  Just for the record, I would... and I have.  In one instance, I came across the hider quite by accident as he was hiding the cache.  Another time, there was a series coming out a few at a time.  I just went .01 down the road from the last published cache and began looking and found a couple more that way.  All's fair in love and geocaching, I say, but I'm sure others may disagree.

 

Maybe this should be a whole other thread.

 

 

Oooops, you're right. I got my thinking mixed up between finding and logging. A person can find a cache but they cannot log it online until after it's published.

 

There's a cache series placed right now that hasn't been submitted for review yet. i knew the cache owners had placed them and the general area they placed them in, but had no idea exactly where. Just for the fun of it, i decided to see if i could find one of the caches and sure enough, was able to spot it. I realize that this is not the same as just getting lucky and stumbling onto a cache, but it goes along the same lines in that the cache wasn't published for everyone to have a chance at. That cache is still unlogged.

 

Because of the variables, figuring out when to claim a ftf can be more complicated. If i take the words "first to find" for what they basically mean, then the first person to make the find is the person who got it. Doesn't matter if it's published or not. But in this case, it's more a matter of how i feel about logging it. There's usually a friendly competition going on when ftfs are at stake. Claiming a ftf on a cache that only i know about just doesn't work for me. Would i make a special trip back out to sign the log,, no. My log however, would state that i just got lucky and stumbled across it with no mention of "ftf" in it.



#15 HoustonControl

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:16 PM

...Claiming a ftf on a cache that only i know about just doesn't work for me. Would i make a special trip back out to sign the log,, no. My log however, would state that i just got lucky and stumbled across it with no mention of "ftf" in it.

I can agree with that. In the case where I stumbled upon Parkerplus another cacher as he was hiding the cache, he offered the log to me to sign so I took it.  In the other instance, caches for BaytownBert's Goatman a series were publishing in one's and two's, so everyone knew they were there.  I just took initiative to brute force my way along the road and found another couple of them.  It wasn't like I had specific insight that no one else was privy to.

 

Of course I've been out with folks whe were hiding CLAPS some caches and didn't sign the logs or even try for the FTF because I had prior knowledge of their exisitance.  I still haven't logged most of those caches.

 

Good stuff!
 


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#16 KeyResults

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 02:40 PM

I feel like we have Mr. Subliminal a former SNL character among us in some of the posts I'm reading. :)


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#17 GASTX

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:43 PM

I feel like we have Mr. Subliminal a former SNL character among us in some of the posts I'm reading. :)

If you read it backwards you will find his true meaning.  :)


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#18 teamCull

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:39 PM

 

Because of my replies in other threads, ya'll may already know what i'm gonna say. Guess i'm kinda strict with myself.  :unsure:

 

A cache needs to be published and currently listed on gc.com before i log it as found. It just doesn't feel right posting a found log on a cache before it's published or after it's archived. Now, if i happened to have found the cache while it was active and somehow forgot to log it, then i wouldn't have any problem going back and logging it after it was archived.

Interesting.  Of course, it's impossible to log a cache online before it is published.  If you found a cache in the field before it is published, would you go ahead and sign the log, then claim the FTF when it did publish?  Just for the record, I would... and I have.  In one instance, I came across the hider quite by accident as he was hiding the cache.  Another time, there was a series coming out a few at a time.  I just went .01 down the road from the last published cache and began looking and found a couple more that way.  All's fair in love and geocaching, I say, but I'm sure others may disagree.

 

Maybe this should be a whole other thread.

 

I have a cacher friend who occasionally gets on in my name (I am perfectly ok with that), but this cacher inadvertently started filling out the form for a new cache while in my name.  Thus I had all the info for several caches.  I told this cacher of the mistake, but only after copying down the co-ords.  Perhaps some cachers may view this as not having been entirely kosher, but then, my friend should pay closer attention to what they are doing.






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