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Claiming an FTF


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Poll: Claiming FTF (13 member(s) have cast votes)

Who gets to claim FTF if Some finds the physical container first but didn't log the logsheet and hadn't logged it online, but has a picture with the container at GZ. Or the person that actually signed the logsheet and logged online first.

  1. Person who logged the logsheet and logged online first. (9 votes [69.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 69.23%

  2. Person who found the container first, couldn't get the logsheet out, took a picture, then posted that the FTF'd it after someone else logged it online (and oh yeah post dated it a day to make sure it got listed first.) (1 votes [7.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  3. Both (3 votes [23.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

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#1 TAZ427

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:49 AM

Ok, so last night a number of caches pop in my area and I'm too busy to go after FTF's.  I hope that one or two are available in the morning to make a run for it, and sure enough there are a couple still available.  I got to the first one and meet Sugarlandians, we couldn't find the cache, he has to get going to work and I decide to make a run on another one.  Pole Dancer, did a quick refresh in c:geo to make sure it still hadn't be logged online and head out.  I do this again at GZ.  I spot the container and open it up.  And I have a bit of a problem getting the logsheet out of the nano, but no more so than I have had on a number of occasions with Nano's.  

 

So I post an FTF on my phone so others who may be in the hunt know that this one has been found for FTF'ng because that's just the type of cacher I am.  I make it short and sweet (with a bit of a joke on the name as I couldn't resist) and indicate that I'll post more details later.

 

Well I get to work and low and behold, there's now a 7/18 posting of finding the cache, and a picture of the container and an explanation that they couldn't get the logsheet out.

 

I'll probably end up retracting my FTF claim, but I feel a bit screwed over on this one.

 

Your thoughts?


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#2 Team Four Paw

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

I noticed c:geo apparently caches the listing if you've already looked at it once. So you may not be looking at the latest logs...

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#3 TAZ427

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:09 PM

I noticed c:geo apparently caches the listing if you've already looked at it once. So you may not be looking at the latest logs...

 

You are correct that it does do this, but if you hit refresh, which I do when checking to see if it's been FTF'd, then it grabs the latest.  I may have had stale data, but c:geo appear to do the standard refresh which pulls in the latest logs.


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#4 cachestacker

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:42 PM

  III. LOGGING Guidelines: Logging Guidelines cover the requirements that must be fulfilled in order to log a find.
  1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

    Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

3.6. Log Book Etiquette

When you find a geocache, write the date of the visit, your username and the experience you had into the log book. You may want to share funny stories about your adventure, or tell about the condition of the cache and the area of the hide. Some people prefer to enter just their name into the log book. Others have special stamps, stickers or paper-punchers that leave signature marks in the pages.

Sometimes, for smaller cache containers, there is no book but only sheet. It is best to simply write your username and the date on these sheets.

 


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#5 cachestacker

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

I personally would consider you having FTF if I had to decide just one of you, becuase you're supposed to sign the log.  Forgot the pen, couldn't get it to open, etc. works on a normal find.  But not for an FTF.  Higher standard.  But that's just me - I would not have tried to / claimed an FTF with a photo and a half-attempt.  

 

On my caches, I don't care if one or more claim it.  That's their stats.  I see nothing wrong with either or both claiming it.  In the end you have to be happy with what you choose.


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#6 TexasWriter

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:19 PM

Chad, I saw the newb's two logs last night and I intentionally didn't go after Pole Dance (it was the only new PD74 cache I didn't go after). I didn't want an STF and I didn't want to tussle over who got the FTF, because I knew what Groundspeak's take on it was. I just decided that 6 FTF's was as good as 6-1/2. At the end of the day, you have the guidelines, you have judgment calls, and you have grace (and in my case you have avoidance...lol). It depends on which one(s) you want to latch onto. You can 1) extend grace and send the newb a message to let them know what guidelines and etiquette are but that you're going to let it slide and let it be their first FTF (as she stated), or 2) you can claim the FTF and let the newb discover (if she ever goes back to look at the online log) the hard way what the guidelines and etiquette are and that she didn't follow it so she lost out. Your call, man. You gonna wear the white hat or the black one? Lol

 

I don't use c:geo, but I ran into some folks the other day who were going after an FTF on one of my caches. I informed them that it had been found already. They said that's not what c:geo showed and they even refreshed it right there in front of me, and it still showed the cache unfound. I pulled out a real smartphone and showed them the FTF email that I had received 12 hours earlier. :laugh:  Just kidding about the real smartphone thing....I've never owned a Droid so I can't say. Just passing along a recent observation.


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#7 Team Four Paw

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

A cache in hand is the same a signed logbook to me...
It's not fair to make a cache with a near impossible to remove logbook and then say a smiley can only be had if the log is signed.

Then again I'm not a fan of Micros/Nanos.

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#8 TAZ427

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:39 PM

Chad, I saw the newb's two logs last night and I intentionally didn't go after Pole Dance (it was the only new PD74 cache I didn't go after). I didn't want an STF and I didn't want to tussle over who got the FTF, because I knew what Groundspeak's take on it was. I just decided that 6 FTF's was as good as 6-1/2. At the end of the day, you have the guidelines, you have judgment calls, and you have grace (and in my case you have avoidance...lol). It depends on which one(s) you want to latch onto. You can 1) extend grace and send the newb a message to let them know what guidelines and etiquette are but that you're going to let it slide and let it be their first FTF (as she stated), or 2) you can claim the FTF and let the newb discover (if she ever goes back to look at the online log) the hard way what the guidelines and etiquette are and that she didn't follow it so she lost out. Your call, man. You gonna wear the white hat or the black one? Lol

 

I don't use c:geo, but I ran into some folks the other day who were going after an FTF on one of my caches. I informed them that it had been found already. They said that's not what c:geo showed and they even refreshed it right there in front of me, and it still showed the cache unfound. I pulled out a real smartphone and showed them the FTF email that I had received 12 hours earlier. :laugh:  Just kidding about the real smartphone thing....I've never owned a Droid so I can't say. Just passing along a recent observation.

 

c:geo may have a bug in it at the moment - Groundspeak is always screwing with their API and the c:geo has to figure out what the deal is and make corrective actions.  It happens.  I guess I did have stale data.

 

That said, I'm not sure I really care, I got the other PD74 FTF (Ironically named Revenge) and I may just let her have her glory day.  I just wanted one for the month to keep my Month Streak moving forward.  I tend to get about 3months w/ FTFs and then miss one, but I have a personal goal to get 12mo streak of having at least one FTF in each month.  This month has been closed out LOL.  I just really wanted to get the opinions of others on the fine subject matter.


Edited by TAZ427, 19 July 2013 - 01:42 PM.

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#9 TexasWriter

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:43 PM

 

Chad, I saw the newb's two logs last night and I intentionally didn't go after Pole Dance (it was the only new PD74 cache I didn't go after). I didn't want an STF and I didn't want to tussle over who got the FTF, because I knew what Groundspeak's take on it was. I just decided that 6 FTF's was as good as 6-1/2. At the end of the day, you have the guidelines, you have judgment calls, and you have grace (and in my case you have avoidance...lol). It depends on which one(s) you want to latch onto. You can 1) extend grace and send the newb a message to let them know what guidelines and etiquette are but that you're going to let it slide and let it be their first FTF (as she stated), or 2) you can claim the FTF and let the newb discover (if she ever goes back to look at the online log) the hard way what the guidelines and etiquette are and that she didn't follow it so she lost out. Your call, man. You gonna wear the white hat or the black one? Lol

 

I don't use c:geo, but I ran into some folks the other day who were going after an FTF on one of my caches. I informed them that it had been found already. They said that's not what c:geo showed and they even refreshed it right there in front of me, and it still showed the cache unfound. I pulled out a real smartphone and showed them the FTF email that I had received 12 hours earlier. :laugh:  Just kidding about the real smartphone thing....I've never owned a Droid so I can't say. Just passing along a recent observation.

 

...I have a personal goal to get 12mo streak of having at least one FTF in each month.  

 

Yeah, I try to get one FTF a month too :cheers:  


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#10 .jpeg

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:51 PM

This is difficult since I know both parties, but I do know that she got there first but couldn't reach the cache. Not her fault that she's short, right? I bet she carries a step ladder and tweezers from now on. But consider this Taz, what if you had arrived while she was still struggling with the container and you, being the chivalrous guy you are, helped her with it? Would that have been a FTF or a co-FTF? She mentioned that she waited around for another, perhaps taller, cacher to arrive but no one did. Hard to find fault in that. Is it your fault that you didn't arrive soon enough to help with the find? I think not. All things considered, I'd call it a co-FTF  And above all, we must remember that it's a game and supposed to be fun. Right?



#11 cachestacker

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:52 PM

Still not seeing why you wouldn't claim it (too).  You don't even have to discuss it with the other finder.


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#12 .jpeg

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:01 PM

Taz, one more thing. On the postdating/predating issue as mentioned in the poll, I don't see the problem. The cache was published on the 18th and she logged it on the 18th. I don't understand why your post is dated the 19th.


Edited by .jpeg, 19 July 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#13 TAZ427

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:02 PM

This is difficult since I know both parties, but I do know that she got there first but couldn't reach the cache. Not her fault that she's short, right? I bet she carries a step ladder and tweezers from now on. But consider this Taz, what if you had arrived while she was still struggling with the container and you, being the chivalrous guy you are, helped her with it? Would that have been a FTF or a co-FTF? She mentioned that she waited around for another, perhaps taller, cacher to arrive but no one did. Hard to find fault in that. Is it your fault that you didn't arrive soon enough to help with the find? I think not. All things considered, I'd call it a co-FTF  And above all, we must remember that it's a game and supposed to be fun. Right?

 

Hell no, I'd knock her down and take away the cache. MINE, ALLLLLL MINE BABY, FTW!!!!  *Comes back to reality* 

 

Truth is I would have pulled out the paper for her and signed the log.  I've had others come up when in the process of signing the log an let them claim Co-FTF.  

 

As can be seen when reading through the thread, I was under the impression that not only had she not signed, but not bothered to log it until the next day, after I had logged mine, but pre-dated it to the day before.  I blame c:geo for lying to me.  It said, nope, nobody else has logged this yet - Grrr... I would never have made the claim.  That said, she actually seems receptive to sharing the FTF credit based on e-mail and logging exchanges, so that's probably what we'll end up doing.


Edited by TAZ427, 19 July 2013 - 02:19 PM.

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#14 TAZ427

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

Taz, one more thing. On the postdating/predating issue as mentioned in the poll, I don't see the problem. The cache was published and she logged it on the 18th. I don't understand why your post is dated the 19th.

 

Wasn't really saying it was a problem if she found it on that day.  I was just trying to explain why I thought mine was bumped from the first in the list (as it would bump it) but that was under the assumption that she hadn't posted her log until after I logged mine, which I now believe was in incorrect assumption.


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#15 TheNorman

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:07 PM

What I would choose in the poll isn't listed:

 

The person who signed the logsheet first irrespective of who logged the find online first.

 

I don't use a smartphone, so when I go geocaching, I log my finds as soon as I get back home.

 

This was an issue on a FTF up here in Huntsville.  On our way out of town (Tealcat and I were headed to a state park for the challenge) we noticed that a cache had still not been found.  So we stopped, made the find, signed the logsheet in the position for First to Find, then went on to the park.  At the end of the day, when we were logging our finds online, I saw that someone had claimed to be FTF even though we were there first.

 

I don't think I have ever thought about "sharing FTF credit".  How does that happen?



#16 cachestacker

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:15 PM

 

I don't think I have ever thought about "sharing FTF credit".  How does that happen?

 

You've never been at GZ with other cachers looking for it at the same time?


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#17 TAZ427

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:16 PM

What I would choose in the poll isn't listed:

 

The person who signed the logsheet first irrespective of who logged the find online first.

 

I don't use a smartphone, so when I go geocaching, I log my finds as soon as I get back home.

 

This was an issue on a FTF up here in Huntsville.  On our way out of town (Tealcat and I were headed to a state park for the challenge) we noticed that a cache had still not been found.  So we stopped, made the find, signed the logsheet in the position for First to Find, then went on to the park.  At the end of the day, when we were logging our finds online, I saw that someone had claimed to be FTF even though we were there first.

 

I don't think I have ever thought about "sharing FTF credit".  How does that happen?

 

I've Co-FTF at least dozen times, caching with other people, or meeting people at the cache site and agreeing to co-FTF if either of us find it as it's a joint search at that point.  Besides, there's no real tracking of FTFs by GS so it's really an honesty thing anyway.  It's whether I mark it as an FTF in the application that I use to track my FTFs (GSAK for my case where I search for a string {*FTF*} to identify my FTFs.)  

 

All this said, I've decided to not claim this as an FTF.  No real sweet off my back.


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#18 pindroppers74

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

When I went to bed last night (at 2:30 am) geogurl had posted her log and photo. She wasn't able to get the log out (my bad for not taking off 1/2 in of paper). She had made the effort of taking items out of her trunk to stand on to reach the cache.

That being said, I know I would have probably torn up the log to get it out for a ftf, but that's just me ( and probably not the best action).

As far as I am concerned, you both are first......


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#19 TAZ427

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:39 PM

When I went to bed last night (at 2:30 am) geogurl had posted her log and photo. She wasn't able to get the log out (my bad for not taking off 1/2 in of paper). She had made the effort of taking items out of her trunk to stand on to reach the cache.

That being said, I know I would have probably torn up the log to get it out for a ftf, but that's just me ( and probably not the best action).

As far as I am concerned, you both are first......

 

Thanks, I appreciate that.  But I'm going to let her claim her first FTF all on her own  :angel:  I probably would have used my teeth to rip it out - well actually I did do that.  After I re-rolled it it actually went back in really easily so no need to run out to rip a 1/2" off the paper.

 

While I like to get some FTFs, I'm happy with getting Revenge - FTF on your cache named Revenge that is  :2funny:


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#20 TheNorman

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:16 PM

 

 

I don't think I have ever thought about "sharing FTF credit".  How does that happen?

 

You've never been at GZ with other cachers looking for it at the same time?

 

Nope.  I live in Huntsville and there aren't a lot of geocachers here.  My wife and I have seen others (mainly Team Troglodyte) on the trail before or after a find, but we have so far never encountered other cachers looking for a FTF at GZ.






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