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Why not a Panda? GC4D2RB


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#1 Dhaulaghiri

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

Now here's an interesting one:

 

This one was published 4/28/2013 and I was one of the first out there to try and grab a FTF.

At that time it was a 2.5/1.5 DT cache. I looked for it for about an hour and came up empty, which is nothing out of the ordinary, sometimes you just don't see it. It didn't help me at all that the coordinates pointed to a spot possibly inside a park, but could also be outside the same park.

I was lucky to go out in the middle of the day, 

 

Rozowski5 wrote this:

'Worst DNF so far for Rozowskis 2-5. We were hoping for a FTF and got locked into a park instead. Please note the park closes at 6pm. We did not. We got let out by a ranger that saw my son searching in the bamboo. We didn't know we were locked in, we were enjoying the peace and quiet of the park. We were watching some really cute bunnies while looking around the both sides of GZ which was the middle of the path. Since I had seen some really tough hides lately I was not leaving any stones unturned, so to speak. We searched low, high, metallic, and mineral and just when it stopped being fun the ranger said we were locked in and needed to leave. We left with a tiny shred of pride left in tact, but just a bit. The CO updated to co-ords a bit so now it is in a bush not on the path, that might help. It would also be nice to know what you are looking for in a bush since I know I shoved my son in there to look and he didn't see a cache. :)'

 

Recently things have changed:

 

1. After 2 DNF's the coordinates were adjusted by 6.2ft / 1.9m. (and that didn't help me at all, still pointed to the same spot for me)

2. After 3 DNF's the difficulty got upped to a 4

3. After 7 DNF's the difficulty suddenly gets bumped to a 5 and the cache description changed to:

 

'JAPANESE GARDEN CLOSES AT 6PM!!! You will be locked in if you stay after. You have been warned. We were told that the hint was confusing, so we removed it. Haha! This is a bit of an evil hide... Have patience and good luck! Remember to log ALL your DNFs... We won't tease you TOO bad...'

 

 

Now I know several cachers (including me) have reached out to the CO to try and get more info, some of them got a reply others didn't. The people who have been there know it's a really tough spot (dense bamboo bush) but I find it hard too believe that even 7 local cachers with a total of 14,579 finds under their accumulated belts haven't been able to come up with something.

 

The latest post from the CO:

'Ok, everybody! We went out to check on the cache because there are STILL DNFs coming in and it wasn't there and looked like it hasn't been for a while, now. Just kidding!!! Our very lonely panda was still exactly the way we left it. We checked the coords for the millionth time and they just don't get any closer. Come and get it'

 

Now what do you guys think, in a search such as this one, should the CO give away a little more or not?

 


"Do or do not, there is no try." -Yoda

 

"Some say he can get FTF on a 5 terrain cache blindfolded. Some say he's never decrypted a hint and doesn't own a GPSr. All we know is... he's called The STIG!" -Houston Control
 
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#2 Baytown Bert

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:00 PM

I'm thinking maybe a metal detector?


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#3 georeyna

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:47 PM

Agree with Bert, act like your tying your shoes possibly?  


Edited by georeyna, 03 June 2013 - 06:48 PM.


#4 georeyna

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

I have learned through many tough finds, if the CO states it is there..it is there, just a *tough, it is there*.  Good Luck!!  

 

The CO does not have to give out any more hints if they have not desire to do so, you are on your own sometimes.......



#5 HoustonControl

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:10 PM

The coordinates are probably off.  They've been caching since March and have 3 hides, so it's possible they're not real sure what they are doing... probably using a phone and not averaging readings or anything.  This is just a guess, naturally.  If it's a tough hide and the coordinates are off 15-20 feet, it could make it next to impossible.


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#6 2katz

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:28 PM

Yes, the coords could be off however, it may also just be a really good hide.  With the new rating, should a hint be given?  I don't know.  

 

For my 5 difficulty, I give/gave hints to a few that posted multiple DNF's and sent me a note asking for a hint.  Some even came back for a second hint before finally zeroing in on the prize.


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#7 KeyResults

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:31 PM

No. When a good hide beats us, we lick our wounds and get over it. Or, we suck it up, connive, obsess, beg, beg some more, and go try again.


Edited by KeyResults, 03 June 2013 - 07:33 PM.

Why am I all sweatty and late? Umm...

#8 HoustonControl

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:16 PM

But they started with a 2.5 rating and only went to 5 based on all the DNF's. If cachers with thousands of finds can't find a 2.5 rated difficulty after searching for an hour, something is amiss.
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#9 Mr Muddy Buddy

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:20 PM

There's always the "ignore list"


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#10 heftydude

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:30 PM

There's always the "ignore list"

Bingo! Couple that with Watching it and you got an excellent combination for knowing what all goes on but don't have to see the darn thing on your map. I use this combo all the time (including this one since I'm one that's been spanked by it).
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#11 rozowski5

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:32 PM

I am trying to ignore this one but it is hard. I sent Texas writer a note today because I saw he had been back out there to look again and wanted to know why he wanted to bang his head against this one for a second time. Some of us are just hard headed. Me included because I keep thinking I should just pop back out there for one more try. I am interested to see how this saga develops.

#12 TexasWriter

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:47 PM

I will say this: I tried to validate the coordinates by asking if the CO's had verified the location on the sat map. I also wanted to ensure that the container size listed was correct, because something just wasn't adding up. I didn't want hints and wasn't fishing for any. Just trying to validate that the data listed was correct, because something wasn't adding up. The information that I got back was less than helpful, I'll just say that. I don't feel that it could be a true micro (between a small bison tube and a small pill bottle in size), the coordinates be correct, and the terrain rating be a 1.5, because the coords are in the middle of the bamboo clump, which is thick as hell. In my humble opinion, something is off....either coords (which for a D5 should be within 12 feet max), terrain rating, or container size....or some combination. I could be wrong (happens now and then), but I don't think so. It could also just be a great hide that escaped my methodical combing of GZ today. Regardless, I'm done with it, personally. Bamboo makes me itch like mad for a few hours afterwards, and I've scratched enough epithelial layers off for this one. It's just a part of the game....deciding where we want to play it, with whom, and how....


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#13 HoustonControl

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

Micro is the smallest cache size you can choose, so many cachers will use that for nanos and other tiny (or tinier) things. I guess you could use Unknown or Not Listed for caches of that size.
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#14 TexasWriter

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:07 PM

Micro is the smallest cache size you can choose, so many cachers will use that for nanos and other tiny (or tinier) things. I guess you could use Unknown or Not Listed for caches of that size.

 

To me, that's the most accurate way to list a nano (or smaller) cache....by using Unknown or Not Chosen. If you follow the size guidelines that Groundspeak puts pictures of on the new cache submission page(s), it shows the small bison for the micro. I know there is subjectivity in some of the sizes, but that's my .02.


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#15 Baytown Bert

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:44 AM

If I can't push a geocoin through the opening, it's a micro to me, regardless of length. Size matters!

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#16 Dhaulaghiri

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:24 AM

See, that's why I posted this thread. I'm also intrigued and don't give up easily and will keep on going back and try different things.
The damn thing is just too close to home to ignore.

Now opposed to some I am willing to believe the coordinates are accurate, but I do have a big issue with people using the
'Micro' option when hiding anything smaller then a pill bottle, especially in a natural setting like this one, please, pick 'not chosen' or 'other' and mention something about the size in your description.

To be continued ;)

"Do or do not, there is no try." -Yoda

 

"Some say he can get FTF on a 5 terrain cache blindfolded. Some say he's never decrypted a hint and doesn't own a GPSr. All we know is... he's called The STIG!" -Houston Control
 
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#17 cachestacker

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:50 AM

Until they come out with a Nano  or Smaller than Micro category, I hate to say it, but it fits just fine as a micro.  See below. 

 

As to the other options, but I usually associate Not Chosen or Other as a different type of container altogether.  Flat magnets.  Something not typically associated with caching.  Custom made caches.  Monkey puzzles.  Etc.  As they indicate farther down the page, they consider a pill bottle a LARGER micro, so clearly the intent was someting smaller.  Of course, pill bottle sizes vary, but the one they show is a typical one.

 

I am hoping that it really IS a really good hide and is not off.  If so, hope nobody spoils it.  If not, can't wait to hear about it.  :2funny:

 

 

6.2. Containers Explained

Sizes

  1. micro: e.g. 35mm film canister or smaller
  2. small: Holds only a small logbook and small items.
  3. regular: e.g. ammo box
  4. large: e.g. 5-gallon bucket (about 20 liters)
  5. other: See the cache description.

 

They also note this farther down the page:

 

Pill Bottles

A plastic pill bottle has some good qualities for a micro cache (albeit a large one): the plastic tends to be very tough and the lid usually fits well. However, water gets in quite easily.

 

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#18 TexasWriter

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:52 AM

See, that's why I posted this thread. I'm also intrigued and don't give up easily and will keep on going back and try different things.
The damn thing is just too close to home to ignore.

Now opposed to some I am willing to believe the coordinates are accurate, but I do have a big issue with people using the
'Micro' option when hiding anything smaller then a pill bottle, especially in a natural setting like this one, please, pick 'not chosen' or 'other' and mention something about the size in your description.

To be continued ;)

 

I agree about the coordinates now that they've actually consulted a satellite map (not sure how someone can put out an evil hide without throwing it up on Google Earth first). I don't the coordinates are the issue. If I didn't live 35 mins away I would probably be down there until I found it as well. Not that hard-headedness has anything to do with it...


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#19 TexasWriter

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:05 AM

Until they come out with a Nano  or Smaller than Micro category, I hate to say it, but it fits just fine as a micro.  See below. 

 

As to the other options, but I usually associate Not Chosen or Other as a different type of container altogether.  Flat magnets.  Something not typically associated with caching.  Custom made caches.  Monkey puzzles.  Etc.  As they indicate farther down the page, they consider a pill bottle a LARGER micro, so clearly the intent was someting smaller.  Of course, pill bottle sizes vary, but the one they show is a typical one.

 

I am hoping that it really IS a really good hide and is not off.  If so, hope nobody spoils it.  If not, can't wait to hear about it.  :2funny:

 

 

6.2. Containers Explained

Sizes

  1. micro: e.g. 35mm film canister or smaller
  2. small: Holds only a small logbook and small items.
  3. regular: e.g. ammo box
  4. large: e.g. 5-gallon bucket (about 20 liters)
  5. other: See the cache description.

 

They also note this farther down the page:

 

Pill Bottles

A plastic pill bottle has some good qualities for a micro cache (albeit a large one): the plastic tends to be very tough and the lid usually fits well. However, water gets in quite easily.

 

I think everyone knows you "can" use the micro listing for a nano because it's the smallest size selection available, but I think the point was there is a better way to differentiate a nano from the next sizes up by using the Not Chosen or Other selections. I think it just depends on how clear someone wants to be for searchers.

 

As for this hide in particular, I'm sure there was not only no attempt to be clear, but the original listing was intended to be confusing by providing conflicting information (hint said the opposite of the title). The CO told me that the conflicting information was intended to make the hide more challenging. Personally, I'm not into frustrating people who are looking for my hides. To each his own, I guess. That's both the up and down sides of having a great game that we can play in a great, free country.


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#20 cachestacker

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:18 AM

The flip-side is that you could approach it like when I had my eTrex.  It gave you the GC number and an arrow.  For my first 1200 finds -- I'd say 80% I never looked up.  Just went there's one there and went.  No idea size, DT, etc. while searching.

 

Sometimes stating what it is, exactly, and sometimes even hinting, takes too much away.  Sometimes not.

 

And sometimes it's just fun to mess with people.  Just because.  :stirpot:  >:D

 

I'd never do that.  <_<


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