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Hiding a cache without finding one first


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#41 Team Four Paw

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 09:12 PM



I wonder if he is using a smart phone to hide the caches?


I hope no one uses a smart phone to hide Geocaches. This is just not accurate for hiding one.

Roger


Too many folks need to catch up on this. Times have changed and so has the tech.

Several "smart phones" has much more accurate radios and compass components that equal or better some high-end GPSr units. The difference between an iPhone4 using geosphere software with averaging - easily equal to or better than most dedicated GPSr units  - and say an iPhone3 with any app is night and day. It's like comparing a trimble to an $99 etrex.

You guys who are blindly beating on ALL connected smart phones are missing out on a very powerful tool, that is as good or better than your Garmin in every way except battery life and sometimes canopy penetration. That's a fact. The latest Droids and iPhone hardware is incredible. The software is finally leveraging the incredible hardware.

Please do your homework and please be specific when you knock "smart phones" You obviously have not been exposed to these fantastic little gadgets setup and used properly. At this point, it's not about the device, it's about the application being used, and the person holding the unit.

I have proven this three times hunting against an Oregon 450, Garmin 60CSx and a Garmin 62s. Each unit was in the hands of an experienced cacher who thought smart phones are junk. I smoked them all to the caches and made believers out of each. I'll take an iPhone 4 armed with geoSphere app against any consumer GPSr if I could have only one device. I use the GPSMAP 62s everytime I go out because it has better battery life and because it does hold sats better under canopy where I like to cache most. However, if you forced me to pick only one device for a contest, I promise you I'd take the phone.

I believe we have a lot of closet iPad, iPhone, Droid users out there who have yet to admit this for some reason, but it's time to let the cat out of the bag. The right smart phone with the right app is a killer geocaching tool. If I am Garmin, I'd be quaking in my boots right now...seriously.

I think it would be a really fun "shootout" event to pit two teams of our local "elite" cachers, one team using only smart phones and the other using only consumer GPSr units. My money is definitely on the phone team.

To sweeten the deal, the second part would be for each team to place 5 hides in varying terrain using their respective devices. Then, have a commercial surveying quality unit assess each teams hide coordinates to see just how accurate the placements were. I believe everyone will be surprised by the results.

Just a thought.

K

K


Let me know when you plan on doing the FCL. I'll tag along with my 62s. I wanna watch while you navigate those tall pines with your Smartphone.  :)

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#42 GrangerFam

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 09:13 PM

we were all beginning cachers and made mistakes.  it's kinda ridiculous to be against folks trying the sport out and placing caches, no matter their "experience level" or equipment.  as far as challenges for various equipment / cachers is concerned, this is not an interesting topic for me and smacks of defensiveness on both sides.  boring...

#43 GrangerFam

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 09:19 PM

If you want to see if your unit is close, just put the coordinates in google earth and look.  this is not hard.

#44 Nebulus703

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 12:08 PM

If you want to see if your unit is close, just put the coordinates in google earth and look.  this is not hard.


This is exactly what I do when I place a cache. I don't have a GPS or smartphone either.

#45 teamCull

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:22 PM

Sometimes these cache setters with no finds are nothing more than a sock puppet for another established cacher.  They just want to throw one out without someone going, "Oh yeah, that's a certain cacher who has these tendencies."

#46 ohl hockey guy

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:28 PM

Sometimes these cache setters with no finds are nothing more than a sock puppet for another established cacher.  They just want to throw one out without someone going, "Oh yeah, that's a certain cacher who has these tendencies."

I agree
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#47 KeyResults

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 09:11 PM

Having some basic requirement or proficiency seems reasonable to me. The one thing to be sure og though is the case where the CO is using a different ID than normal. I have run across a couple people who have more than one ID at events, but it didn't occur to me to ask why.
Why am I all sweatty and late? Umm...

#48 DaggerK1

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 11:19 PM

This was an interesting and helpful discussion.  I had about 140 finds before my first hide (hidden yesterday, not published yet) and I was starting to feel a little bad about not "giving back" by contributing some hides.  But I can't imagine what mistakes I would have made if I had tried to hide one too soon.  No guarantee that I haven't made mistakes with this hide (TBD), but I learned so much from the finds, reading discussions, etc. that I feel pretty good about it.  I hope I get some feedback from the experienced cachers out there so future hides will be even better.  I'm looking forward to doing more hides and I want them to be good ones.  Hopefully this first one will be. 

#49 WTT-B2

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:00 AM

This was an interesting and helpful discussion.  I had about 140 finds before my first hide (hidden yesterday, not published yet) and I was starting to feel a little bad about not "giving back" by contributing some hides.  But I can't imagine what mistakes I would have made if I had tried to hide one too soon.  No guarantee that I haven't made mistakes with this hide (TBD), but I learned so much from the finds, reading discussions, etc. that I feel pretty good about it.  I hope I get some feedback from the experienced cachers out there so future hides will be even better.  I'm looking forward to doing more hides and I want them to be good ones.  Hopefully this first one will be.


Welcome to the forums DaggerK1 !!

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#50 cachestacker

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 05:48 AM

This was an interesting and helpful discussion.  I had about 140 finds before my first hide (hidden yesterday, not published yet) and I was starting to feel a little bad about not "giving back" by contributing some hides.  But I can't imagine what mistakes I would have made if I had tried to hide one too soon.  No guarantee that I haven't made mistakes with this hide (TBD), but I learned so much from the finds, reading discussions, etc. that I feel pretty good about it.  I hope I get some feedback from the experienced cachers out there so future hides will be even better.  I'm looking forward to doing more hides and I want them to be good ones.  Hopefully this first one will be.


Welcome to the forums, DaggerK1!  You've taken all the right steps.  And I don't think anyone will fault you if a mistake is made.  It happens.  The larger concern is those that find none or very few before having any experience or doing any background work to make sure what they have done is even remotely in order.  Seems like you certainly have.  Look forward to seeing this one and more out there!
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#51 OneStepCloser

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 12:06 PM

This will continue be a source for debate.  O0

Let's just say, for whatever sake, that Mr. OSC decides to make an official Mr. OSC user account and Mrs. OSC uses OneStepCloser.

Mr. OSC won't have any finds in the account so now I've got to wait how long until I can hide?

Nevermind the sockpuppet account but this scenario happens quite frequently....

So when there are too many exceptions it becomes an untenable situation, at best, and cumbersome and frustrating at worst.

Bottom line is those that hide without experience and end up having hides that have issues, whatever they are, tend to resolve themselves eventually.

It's the "eventually" part that takes a while and can be the source of frustration.

There's also the issue of the fact that there are absolutely no requirements to find everything published and the ignore cache feature can help in the process.  Sure, there's the whole inconvenience factor but there's no perfect solution.

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Lead By Example.

Hide Great Caches in Great Locations!

Just Say NO to Cut-n-Paste!

Friends don't let friends mark coords with iPhones. Be kind, use a GPSr.


#52 LGNE

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 02:15 PM

I think GC.com has enough rules!  If you keep adding rules it will end up looking like Congress. :idiot2:  As far as hides I was really pumped when I started this hobby.  I had a grand total of two finds when I hid my first one.

Having said that, there was no issue with the coordinates from anyone until the container went missing over a year later so I archived it.  Have I had to adjust coordinates on some of my caches since then?  You bet, but I think 22 feet was the biggest correction on a cache where the container didn't have to be relocated.

Sometimes I wonder if new cachers when hiding say to themselves, "These are the coordinates, but I'm going to put it here so they have to look a little harder".  Maybe they don't understand that handheld GPSr aren't laser accurate.  At least mine isn't.

So was I frustrated when I drove nearly 50 miles round trip and came up dry not only on the FTF but the caches period?  You bet!  So what did I do?

1.  I dealt  with it knowing it was probably a new cacher excited about hiding something but didn't have much experience.  Been there done that.

2.  Sent him a nice email and a link to Thot's Beginners Guide.  Told him it came in handy for we when I got in the game.

So now what?  I'll watch the area,  when he (she) puts out a new cache I'll look at their stats and see if they have a few finds under their belt.

Oh yeah, I'll let someone else chase their caches for the FTF's for awhile. O0


#53 Texas Dreamweaver

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 06:58 AM

I found Cane Pole Surprise.  It was only 142' off.  I knew the coords were likely bad when I left.  CO has 1 find.  But he's obviously excited about hiding.  He did post new coords when I sent mine so there's some hope.


Yes but his new coords only moved about 15 feet.  I posted logs on all three of his hides with encouragement that he go find a few more caches before hiding anymore.  I told teh cache owner that he/she were already starting to develop a reputation for "bad hides".  Although it is fun to hide caches... it is more fun to have other cachers actually find them.

I guess wasn't politically correct enough because the cache owner changed the coords 15 feet and deleted all three of my DNF logs.  ???

#54 kianlo

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 08:10 AM

Sometimes I wonder if new cachers when hiding say to themselves, "These are the coordinates, but I'm going to put it here so they have to look a little harder".  Maybe they don't understand that handheld GPSr aren't laser accurate.  At least mine isn't.

So was I frustrated when I drove nearly 50 miles round trip and came up dry not only on the FTF but the caches period?  You bet!  So what did I do?

1.  I dealt  with it knowing it was probably a new cacher excited about hiding something but didn't have much experience.  Been there done that.

2.  Sent him a nice email and a link to Thot's Beginners Guide.  Told him it came in handy for we when I got in the game.

So now what?  I'll watch the area,  when he (she) puts out a new cache I'll look at their stats and see if they have a few finds under their belt.

Oh yeah, I'll let someone else chase their caches for the FTF's for awhile. O0


Well said!

#55 Muddy Buddies

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 05:58 AM


I guess wasn't politically correct enough because the cache owner changed the coords 15 feet and deleted all three of my DNF logs.  ???


I never really thought about the CO being able to delete DNF logs.  I don't like that because I use the GSAK macro to eliminate caches from my to do list that have multiple DNFs, so by the CO eliminating that history, it keeps us from knowing that there were ever problems. 

The cache owner may have had good intentions thinking he's helping TDW by taking away his DNFs.  I personally want to know that I had a DNF on a cache if I'm ever back to look again so that I either can avoid it, try again and be victorious the 2nd time by finding it, or add another DNF if I can't find it again. 
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#56 LGNE

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 01:59 PM



The cache owner may have had good intentions thinking he's helping TDW by taking away his DNFs. 


I'm not so sure.  This one http://coord.info/GC2ZAG9came out last night.  I thought maybe....
So I looked at it on satellite and the cache looks like it could very possibly be on private property.  I looked at the CO's stats again and he still has just 1 find.

I put it on my watchlist and no one has gone after it yet.  And, I probably won't.

#57 Manofsteel73

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:26 PM




The cache owner may have had good intentions thinking he's helping TDW by taking away his DNFs. 


I'm not so sure.  This one http://coord.info/GC2ZAG9came out last night.  I thought maybe....
So I looked at it on satellite and the cache looks like it could very possibly be on private property.  I looked at the CO's stats again and he still has just 1 find.

I put it on my watchlist and no one has gone after it yet.  And, I probably won't.



Oh come on, don't you want to be first DNF!

#58 GrangerFam

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 07:33 PM




The cache owner may have had good intentions thinking he's helping TDW by taking away his DNFs. 


I'm not so sure.  This one http://coord.info/GC2ZAG9came out last night.  I thought maybe....
So I looked at it on satellite and the cache looks like it could very possibly be on private property.  I looked at the CO's stats again and he still has just 1 find.

I put it on my watchlist and no one has gone after it yet.  And, I probably won't.


Looks like Kianlo got FTF.  I posted a note to ask how far the coordinates were off. Too harsh?  :P

#59 kianlo

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 07:38 PM

Only 25' off.  And quite a few trees, so understandable.  Not a great area but there's a very nice cemetery nearby.  If I'd had time, I'd have put one there.

Then stopped and looked for Dead Men Walk on the way home with no success.  Coords put it easily within 100' of a RR.  How'd that get approved?  Could have looked a bit more, but didn't have much time.  Then got rained on HARD on the way home.

#60 TheNorman

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 09:42 PM

Then got rained on HARD on the way home.


Rain.  That's a good thing, right? :angel:




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