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Unrest - Musical Puzzle


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#1 GrangerFam

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 12:33 PM

OK...I've been noodling on this on off and on for 6 months... It's called "Unrest" and has remained unfound for ~ 1 year now.

http://www.geocachin...c4-96d65da42047

A few comments / ideas, after a few e-mails with the CO, who is now tired of me writing them.

1.  The coordinates appear to be related to the relative distances between the notes in the score on the cache page.
2.  The score in the background is not important to solving the puzzle.  It's a Pink Floyd song.
3.  The CO refers to a "mistake" in the music and one must understand this to solve the puzzle.  The CO says that the "mistake" is subjective to the music itself.  Not sure what this means.
4.  I think it *could* be the frets on a stringed instrument.  I've tried lots of combinations for the guitar already.
5.  I think the hint "If nothing changes, nothing changes. Don't rest until you've solved the puzzle!" refers to ignoring any rests and that the coordinate number is only related to changes in the note.  There are 15 notes in the puzzle music, if you don't count repeated notes.
6.  The CO says the key is only a pun.  C# / Db


Anyway, this one has been bugging me for a while.  Any thoughts or ideas...or the solution would be appreciated.

#2 SockPuppet

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 05:27 PM

I would ask fendmar
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#3 cachestacker

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 05:31 PM

Wonder who the real owner is...  That might give you some insight.  Then again, might not...
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#4 kianlo

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:05 PM

Just free associating here.  Trying to throw out some ideas and see if anything sticks.  You've likely thought of all of these.  15 notes - 15 numbers in coodinates.  Mistake in music, play the music and listen for the mistake.  Maybe that's where the coords begin.  Chords - coords, probably nothing.  The key is esential in music, don't know how it could be unimportant.  Repetition of notes could have to do with where a particular coord goes.  What album?  The Wall?

#5 Mr Muddy Buddy

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:53 PM

1.  The coordinates appear to be related to the relative distances between the notes in the score on the cache page.


Not sure what you mean here.  In the puzzle, the first note is C-sharp.  The second note is F.  This tonal distance is 4 half steps.  (each octave has 12 half steps).  The thrid note is G, so it is 2 half steps from the previous note.

3.  The CO refers to a "mistake" in the music and one must understand this to solve the puzzle.  The CO says that the "mistake" is subjective to the music itself.  Not sure what this means.


The only mistake that I see is designating an "accidental" (the natural signs, in this case) more than once for the same notes.  In music, I think that once the key is changed on a particular note, then it stays changed until the end, or until something else changes it.

5.  There are 15 notes in the puzzle music, if you don't count repeated notes.


I only see 14 notes if you don't count repeated notes.  From measure 2 to 3 there should be no change, so measure 3 should be ignored.
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#6 kianlo

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 10:42 PM

The only mistake that I see is designating an "accidental" (the natural signs, in this case) more than once for the same notes.  In music, I think that once the key is changed on a particular note, then it stays changed until the end, or until something else changes it.

[quote] 5.  There are 15 notes in the puzzle music, if you don't count repeated notes. [/quote]

I only see 14 notes if you don't count repeated notes.  From measure 2 to 3 there should be no change, so measure 3 should be ignored.
[/quote]

The natural only applies until the end of a measure.  Haven't really looked at the music, don't know if that's important.  Just filling in what little music theory I remember.

14 notes, ignore the 0 in the West coords?

Just throwing stuff out again.

#7 Mr Muddy Buddy

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 06:48 AM


The natural only applies until the end of a measure.  Haven't really looked at the music, don't know if that's important.  Just filling in what little music theory I remember.


Oops.  You're correct.  I had to look it up.  It's been 30+ years since I've done any serious music stuff.  So I guess that it really is 15 notes.
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#8 HoustonControl

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 07:39 AM

I printed it out and gave to the wife to take to school and show to the music teacher -- just to see if she could spot the "mistake".
img.aspx?txt=What+in+the+Hell?&uid=1dd8c

#9 Nebulus703

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 12:04 PM

Music is right up my alley and I'm trying to find anything I can to figure this out. I even have a virtual keyboard up to help me if I need it!

I'm looking at all the intervals between the notes and seeing what I can come up with.

N 32° 52.020 W 096° 40.020 these are the original coords, or the bogus ones so I'm trying to see if I can use those to help confirm what I come up with.

The first few notes are C#, F, G. If I were to take the intervals from C# to F I get a major third so I'm thinking a 3 for the first number. F to G is a major second so a 2 for that. Looking at the bogus coords as a reference point, it seems to make some sense.

G to D is a perfect fifth so 5. Seems to make sense. D to D# is a minor second so a 2 here?

So far these go pretty well with the bogus coords. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to figure it out now because I have a test in 10 minutes so I'll have to give a try later. But maybe this could help if you know Music Theory. I'm just a little worried about the "mistake". I'm not sure what that's about but I'll try again later.


Edit (I'm done with my test now):

I think the string of D# shouldn't really count for anything other than the interval between D natural and D#. So the interval for D natural and D# (a minor second?) could be used. Then the D# and the next D# could be used as a 1 (unison) but the remaining D#s are ignored because the hint says if nothing changes, nothing changes. At least, that's what I'm going with.

Then there's the question of the number 9. If we were to go by intervals the highest thing we could get is an 8 if you find an octave. However, I did notice a 9th which is really a second over the span of an octave. That's the E going up to the F with all the ledger lines (E5 to F6 if you go by octave names. So yes, a 9th is possible. But is a zero possible?

Basically, this idea seems to be working pretty well for me but the final locations that I'm getting are a little questionable so I won't be posting any coords that I think might be the solution just yet. Besides, I still don't know what to make of this "mistake".


#10 kianlo

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:02 AM

Just looked at the puzzle for the first time in a long time and noticed in the fourth measure, after the rest, the notes go F natural, E natural, F natural.  Not sure that's the mistake but it is odd.  F to E is a 7th, i think, E to F is a 9th.  Seems more natural to go F, F, F.  All one octave apart.  Only other musing is ... could the measure numbers have something to do with it?  Measure 6 occurs just after the jump of 9.  Another potential problem is that the CO mentions Dead ends and traps that must be solved.  This must jump around to somewhere else because otherwise, there seem to be no dead ends or traps.  Of course, that assumes the CO is being truthful which since it seems to obviously be a sock puppet could be unlikely.  Let's see, who knows about dead ends, Hey! I know GrangerFam!  Oh wait, he started all this.

#11 HoustonControl

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:15 AM

I'm not musical at all -- well, except on BaytownBert's videos (ifyaknowwhatimean) -- but the music teacher at my wife's school looked at the puzzle and just noted that were a lot of sharps and that those would be black keys on a piano.  So I just converted the black keys vs white keys into binary and got 6 digit numbers, either 294005 or 230282, depending on whether sharps were 1's and naturals were 0's or vice versa.  I split those into two 3-digit numbers and tried plugging them in as the decimal minutes of the coords.  That didn't really pan out, so I tried adding, then subtracting them from the listed coordinates.  Subtracting them pointed very near an interesting light pole on a Toyota dealership lot.

But the result seems kind of weak.  It doesn't take into account any musical "mistake", nor layers of complexity that he mentions.  :-\
img.aspx?txt=What+in+the+Hell?&uid=1dd8c

#12 Mr Muddy Buddy

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:00 PM

Using the Nebulus703 thought process, you can get a reasonable West coord, but nothing in the N-S range of solutions looks to be viable.  Too many houses.  It might be one of the dead ends that the CO mentions.


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#13 GrangerFam

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 05:48 PM

First of all, here is some of the background data:

Given Coordinates:    N32 52.020 W096 40.020
Key = Db Major / C# Major
All notes are # / except naturals (accidentals)
Background is not important, but I don't know which Pink Floyd song it is...sorry.


Here are the notes that I've come up with.  Are we all on the same page here as a starting point?
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No luck here...at least none that I can see.

I've also looked at the various frets for each string on a guitar, bass, and cello to see if I could see a pattern.  Since there are many ways to create each of the notes for each string, there are many combinations. Also, depending on if the music was written for guitar or piano, then middle C is slightly different.  Here is the result for guitar

Posted Image

I've also looked at the circle of fifths, the frequency of each note, and lord knows how many other crazy items.

One note:  The CO provided another somewhat cryptic clue...but may have just been snarky....but he/she said that this was the "ninth" time I've given you hints...but I think the clue was "9th"....so perhaps one needs to convert to Dminor (key for Beethoven's 9th) and re-do...which yields this:

Posted Image

As you can see, I'm going crazy on this....



#14 GrangerFam

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 05:53 PM

By the way...if you want the spreadsheet, send me a PM and I can get it to you...

I'm just sayin'....

#15 Nebulus703

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 07:24 PM

Did the CO actually put quotation marks around the word "ninth"? Maybe D minor isn't the way to go but rather a 9th above C#/Db (the key that the song is in) which would be D#/Eb. But then again, I'm not really sure how this would really change anything but I'm just throwing another idea out there just in case it does work... but it probably won't.

#16 GrangerFam

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 09:34 PM

Did the CO actually put quotation marks around the word "ninth"? Maybe D minor isn't the way to go but rather a 9th above C#/Db (the key that the song is in) which would be D#/Eb. But then again, I'm not really sure how this would really change anything but I'm just throwing another idea out there just in case it does work... but it probably won't.


Nope. No quotes, but it seemed like a hint. 

I'm flat out of ideas...did the spreadsheet help?

#17 CriffRee

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 10:06 PM

Maybe I'm making it too simplistic...
But the bars are numbered.
If you count the notes in each bar, you be N 31 52.141  20
Not sure what the extra 20 is for, unless he used a non standard coord format.

Not sure what to do for the west.

#18 GrangerFam

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:46 AM

I've always said that about you Cliff....

However, that's an interesting idea.  Too bad it's full minute away...

Something else to consider.

#19 eureka1

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 11:46 AM

This all seems goofy enough to end up being the original coords. . .

#20 KeyResults

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:10 AM

I had my daughter (Orchestra Geek) play this for me last night, it sure sounded hideous. She quickly made a tweak and it sounded very pleasant. I think the scale she played with identified the needed tweak (but she found it by playing it first)

BTW: She also noted that the background was a bass clef, so she superimposed 9 bars with the with the Treble Clef and played it and it sounded surprisingly good. Not sure how she dealt with temp differences.

To us both, a "mistake" is the result as written. However, as yet no good propsed solution yet here either. We both believe we're dealing with an classical "orch dork" here and it takes one to know one :0
Why am I all sweatty and late? Umm...




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