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Many 60CSx Questions (more later)


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#281 Thot

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:06 AM

If you're standing still how does the Maggie know which direction you're facing? How does avg'ing make the pointer anymore stable than a garmin?


It's not when you are standing still.  With the Garmin, if you are walking across a field towards a wooded area the pointer jumps widely across a span of as much a 90 degrees -- anywhere up to 45 to the left to 45 to the right.  I believe this is because it is changing to it's latest calculated position.  (I don't know this, I just presume it.)  On my Maggie this swing is damped by averaging, so it is more like 10-20 degrees left to right.  On the Garmin I try to mentally average the jumping around, but on the Maggie I just follow the pointer.   As Ms Muddy Buddies mentioned this jumping around gets worse in the woods.   

Another situation is when the unit is in one location and I'm trying to use the bearing.   After the Maggie is in one place for a while the averaging makes the bearing settle down to a fairly consistent direction.  The Garmin continues to jump all over the place making the use of a bearing and compass almost unworkable.

I'm sure that shortens battery life a bit.


It does.  The battery life on the Garmin is much better.



#282 Team Four Paw

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:23 AM

If you're standing still I don't understand how the maggie's arrow is all that much more accurate than a garmin standing still and bouncing around. In order for your direction to be somewhat accurate you have to be moving at a pretty good clip. (unless you have the compass on and calibrated on a Garmin/S model). Like I said I think it's just a false sense of accuracy. I think paying attention to distance to cache and EPE/Accuracy of reception would be more important than staring at the arrow/direction.

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#283 Great Birds

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:48 AM

In my experience, the bouncing arrow comes from an uncalibrated electronic compass.  This can occur even if you don't get the "Hold level" message that is normally a sign of the need for calibration.  When the compass is calibrated, I find the arrow to be more stable.  It only takes a few seconds to calibrate.

#284 Mr Muddy Buddy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:49 AM

   It only takes a few seconds to calibrate.


If you spin around twice in a few seconds, you might get dizzy and fall down.  ;D
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#285 cub pack 197

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:58 AM

With my 60 CSX, the key is to stand very still for a moment or two.  I also check the result by spinning the unit 180 degrees and checking the arrow again.  Sadly, it is not consistent.

Futzing with the settings improved my compass performance.  I think I changed the setting so that it waits until I am not moving to adjust.

I don't think the compass on this unit works all that well.



#286 Muddy Buddies

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:19 PM


It does.  The battery life on the Garmin is much better.



I can attest to the battery life being much better on the Garmin than my Magellan Color that I had.  On my Magellan Color, I would go through 2 sets of rechargeable batteries in a full day of caching.  With my Garmin, I can go about 2 days on 1 set of rechargeable batteries.  Using my Magellan I alternated between using the Duracell rechargeables and the Eneloop rechargeables.  The Duracell were better in the Magellan.  However, since I started using my Garmin 60CSX, the Duracell ones quit working in the unit or wouldn't hold a charge for long, but the Eneloop batteries are great.  I was always amazed at the results that ATMA had claimed to get with the Eneloop and now I'm seeing the good results too. 
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#287 Thot

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:38 PM

If you're standing still I don't understand how the maggie's arrow is all that much more accurate than a garmin standing still and bouncing around.


Somehow we keep talking past each other.  We are not talking about standing still.  We're talking about approaching the cache location from, say, 200-400 feet away, but walking toward it.

I am, talking about standing still when using the bearing.  The Garmin keeps changing all over the place.  After a short time the Maggie settles down.

I think paying attention to distance to cache and EPE/Accuracy of reception would be more important than staring at the arrow/direction.


Looking at the distance doesn't tell you which direction it is, just how far a way you are.  You can turn all the way around and it will always be the same distance away.  Using distance you have to do the "dance" to get a feel for the direction, while the pointer points toward it constantly (at least it's pretty constant on the Maggie).

I'm not sure we can discuss EPE because it varies between manufacturers and even between models from the same manufacturer.  But, I don't agree that when your distance is the same as the EPE you might as well stop using the pointer.

#288 OneStepCloser

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:40 PM

Thanks to HC, we get outstanding results with the Rayovac Hybrids in both our 60CSx and Vista HCx!

Because we have the compass set to virtually never come on we never get the jumpy arrow or the hold level deal, ergo, the arrow hardly spazzes out.

There are other, uh, oddities between units, however but are outside the scope of this thread.

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#289 OneStepCloser

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:45 PM


If you're standing still I don't understand how the maggie's arrow is all that much more accurate than a garmin standing still and bouncing around.


Somehow we keep talking past each other.  We are not talking about standing still.  We're talking about approaching the cache location from, say, 200-400 feet away, but walking toward it.

I am, talking about standing still when using the bearing.  The Garmin keeps changing all over the place.  After a short time the Maggie settles down.

I think paying attention to distance to cache and EPE/Accuracy of reception would be more important than staring at the arrow/direction.


Looking at the distance doesn't tell you which direction it is, just how far a way you are.  You can turn all the way around and it will always be the same distance away.  Using distance you have to do the "dance" to get a feel for the direction, while the pointer points toward it constantly (at least it's pretty constant on the Maggie).

I'm not sure we can discuss EPE because it varies between manufacturers and even between models from the same manufacturer.  But, I don't agree that when your distance is the same as the EPE you might as well stop using the pointer.


Well, if your EPE is about the same as your distance, on a Good Day, you're probably standing right on top of the cache, figuratively (and probably literally in some cases)....and generally when we get within the last 30-50' we've gotten used to hunting with eyes and not the unit.  But that goes to hunting technique.....

So, guess we're like TFP that way.....

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#290 Thot

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:47 PM

On my Magellan Color, I would go through 2 sets of rechargeable batteries in a full day of caching.  With my Garmin, I can go about 2 days on 1 set of rechargeable batteries.   


I don't go on all day outings, but on my 3-4 hour ones I always had to change the batteries once.  With the Garmin I can go for 3-4 of these outings before changing batteries (unless I forget and leave it on) and even then I change them at home before they run out.

Another of my peeves with the Garmin is you can't set it to turn off after a defined period of time.  I never had to thing about turning the Maggie off because it turned off after about 15 minutes with no movement.

#291 OneStepCloser

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:49 PM

Another of my peeves with the Garmin is you can't set it to turn off after a defined period of time.  I never had to thing about turning the Maggie off because it turned off after about 15 minutes with no movement.


This actually sounds like a useful function to have.  :)

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#292 Thot

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:53 PM

This actually sounds like a useful function to have.  :)


It's my opinion if you ever had the running average for a while you think it a useful function too.  But, to some degree it's because I don't want to walk any further than I absolutely have to.  As long as you don't mind wandering around some, as you get closer the bouncing around span gets smaller in size.

#293 Team Four Paw

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 02:24 PM

Pages 48-54 in the 60CSx manual could be of some use in regards to the compass.

Thot, Have you paid much attention to the blue circle that surrounds your location in relation to where the cache is?

Question:  Why is my position on the map screen not accurate?
Answer:

The basemap in your unit has been drawn from a map with a scale of 1:1,000,000. You can expect an accuracy of .25 miles (1,320 feet) from a map of this scale.

Additionally, when you view your position on the GPS map page, you will notice that a circle displays around your current position. This circle shows the area you can expect your actual position to fall within. The less accuracy the unit has at the time, the larger the circle will be. The diameter of this circle considers both your GPS accuracy and the accuracy of the map to which you are trying to plot your position.

City Navigator, which is a more detailed mapping program, has an accuracy of about 40 feet. Therefore, you would see a smaller circle around your actual position (assuming you have a good GPS position fix), than you would using a basemap.
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#294 Thot

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 03:24 PM

Pages 48-54 in the 60CSx manual could be of some use in regards to the compass.

Thot, Have you paid much attention to the blue circle that surrounds your location in relation to where the cache is?


I don't know about a blue circle but those pages seem to be about the compass screen which I don't use.

#295 Team Four Paw

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:24 PM

The compass as Great Birds said can aid and help settle the arrow.

The blue circle (may have to turn off lock on road under map setup) represents the "accuracy" of your location. As stated in my post above from garmin your actual location can be anywhere within that circle at a (according to garmin) 95% probability. Probably more like 70%. My point is; given the accuracy of the coordinates you're seeking and the current accuracy of your unit; if the waypoint falls within that blue circle there is really no point in using the GPSr at that point. The arrow really doesn't matter whether it's sitting dead still or spinning in circles. In my experience you really have to moving pretty quick for your bearing to be even remotely accurate. In regards to the maggie SporTrak pro I used for 6 months I spent more time walking around in circles following that arrow then I ever did with my garmin. Don't put so much thought into reading the GPSr. Expend those brain cells on looking for the cache.

I personally don't need to see the blue circle or the map. I'm fairly good at judging distance from shooting and walking the archery range for so many years. I just need to know the estimated accuracy and distance to cache. That is enough info to get me close enough. The arrow on the geocache/compass page just helps me walk in the general direction.

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#296 ohl hockey guy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:54 PM

I agree with TFP. Just ask Hockey Man... tell him you are within 50 ft of a cache and he runs off without a GPS and finds it.
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#297 Thot

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 02:31 PM

My unit has started doing something odd.  After I loaded a new set of just less than 1000 caches last night it only showed four of them, and showed these with an odd icon.  I can't locate that icon now but if my old broken memory serves, it was a small circle with a dot in the center -- something like a radio button that has been selected Posted Image

I deleted all the caches and reloaded them and things were working right again.  I assumed it was some sort of random glitch and forgot about it until I was out caching this morning and, leaving the third cache, when I pushed the Find button, it listed only three caches -- the three I'd just been to.  I fussed with it, changing screens, turning it on-and-off and finally it began showing the full list again. 

Has anybody had this experience and if so how do I fix it?

#298 OneStepCloser

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 09:20 PM

Nope, sorry.  Sounds very odd, though....  ???

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#299 Muddy Buddies

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 10:01 PM

My unit has started doing something odd.  After I loaded a new set of just less than 1000 caches last night it only showed four of them, and showed these with an odd icon.   I can't locate that icon now but if my old broken memory serves, it was a small circle with a dot in the center -- something like a radio button that has been selected Posted Image

I deleted all the caches and reloaded them and things were working right again.  I assumed it was some sort of random glitch and forgot about it until I was out caching this morning and, leaving the third cache, when I pushed the Find button, it listed only three caches -- the three I'd just been to.  I fussed with it, changing screens, turning it on-and-off and finally it began showing the full list again.   

Has anybody had this experience and if so how do I fix it?


It sounds like you are getting your recent finds screen that happens when you hit the find button too many times.  If you hit the find and then enter button, you should be back to a full list. 
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#300 Thot

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 11:51 PM

It sounds like you are getting your recent finds screen that happens when you hit the find button too many times.  If you hit the find and then enter button, you should be back to a full list. 


By Jove, I think you're on to something.  I just pressed the Find button twice and all the caches I visited today (found or not) were listed.  When I'd seen references to "found" caches I always assumed this was some kind of feature where you marked caches you've found some way, and I don't do that.  But, apparently it keeps a list of all the caches you've gotten within the approaching circle or something where it knows you got close.   The difference is these caches I visited today have the regular geocache icon not the Posted Image icon.  And, after I had erased and reloaded all caches last night the caches listed were one's I'd never visited. 

By the way, if this is what's happening the Find button must have gotten intermittent -- I know you must press Find then Enter to get the list.  I've done it hundreds (probably more than a thousand) of times.




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